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**Mister Agenda** · (This post was last modified: December 7, 2015 at 3:24 pm by Mister Agenda.)

Jörmungandr Wrote:There's a small green planet near Alpha Centauri. Our morals are beamed into our heads from there.

Technically, we are on a small blue-green planet near Alpha Centauri.

thool · December 7, 2015 at 8:58 pm

Some people believe that "god" invented morals. Since the concept of "god" is man-made, then so are those morals.

Some people believe morals come from man, as a product of evolution. As higher beings, we have the capacity for empathy.

So in either case, the conclusion is the same: morals come from man.

Mudhammam · (This post was last modified: December 10, 2015 at 11:44 pm by Mudhammam.)

(November 10, 2015 at 7:57 am)Mechaghostman2 Wrote: Obviously objective morality doesn't exist considering everyone has a different opinion on what they think is moral. However, considering most of us don't go around killing and raping people, I'd have to say there is a dominant thought process we all share that could be considered universal morality. Chimpanzees and other higher mammals also exhibit this morality, albeit on a smaller scale. So did we evolve our basic morals as some kind of preservation of our species? Or is it completely learned behavior; rules created by tyrants that become memes? Or perhaps both? Is there a part of our brain that we have found to contain morality?

Well, if everyone had a different opinion on what they think is moral - and I don't think that's actually apparent, especially insofar as virtually every culture to some degree finds agreement on a range of moral axioms, such as the Golden Rule - that obviously wouldn't disprove the possibility that morality is objective. The very fact that, as you say, morality may be a natural byproduct of higher intelligence, would suggest to me that it is above mere personal preference; that is, there is something intrinsic within certain states of being that even rudimentary forms of reason can recognize as good qua good.

dyresand · December 12, 2015 at 1:02 am

The source of our morality evolution and the need to keep our species going.
Religion just adds a set of rules to morality giving it the illusion that we are moral because some
being named yaweh or some crap gave us morals.

**The Grand Nudger** · (This post was last modified: December 12, 2015 at 7:48 am by The Grand Nudger.)

(December 10, 2015 at 11:43 pm)Nestor Wrote: Well, if everyone had a different opinion on what they think is moral - and I don't think that's actually apparent, especially insofar as virtually every culture to some degree finds agreement on a range of moral axioms, such as the Golden Rule

IDK......... a good ole boy in the american south believes in the golden rule..just that it doesn't apply to people with black skin. It would be disingenuous to say, then, that he believed even in the same "golden rule" as a black minister in detroit. Even apparent agreement masks a vast gulf of disparate personal moral value and directive statements. Saying that we find "some degree" of agreement explicitly but quietly invokes those disagreements-within-our-agreement.

~~Edwardo Piet~~ · December 12, 2015 at 9:10 am

The source of our morals is our brains.

Mudhammam · (This post was last modified: December 12, 2015 at 12:59 pm by Mudhammam.)

(December 12, 2015 at 7:36 am)Rhythm Wrote:
(December 10, 2015 at 11:43 pm)Nestor Wrote: Well, if everyone had a different opinion on what they think is moral - and I don't think that's actually apparent, especially insofar as virtually every culture to some degree finds agreement on a range of moral axioms, such as the Golden Rule
IDK......... a good ole boy in the american south believes in the golden rule..just that it doesn't apply to people with black skin. It would be disingenuous to say, then, that he believed even in the same "golden rule" as a black minister in detroit. Even apparent agreement masks a vast gulf of disparate personal moral value and directive statements. Saying that we find "some degree" of agreement explicitly but quietly invokes those disagreements-within-our-agreement.

A person can remain ignorant, even by will, and that doesn't affect the truth or one's ability to recognize it given the right kind of education for that individual. I view moral truths in a similar manner to other facts about the world. Even the Southern racist, for example, can come to terms with his own moral failings. This is a premise that "progress" as such requires.

bennyboy · December 12, 2015 at 2:05 pm

(December 12, 2015 at 12:56 pm)Nestor Wrote: A person can remain ignorant, even by will, and that doesn't affect the truth or one's ability to recognize it given the right kind of education for that individual. I view moral truths in a similar manner to other facts about the world. Even the Southern racist, for example, can come to terms with his own moral failings. This is a premise that "progress" as such requires.

I don't think so.

The Southern Baptist is probably saying that even an atheist can come to terms with his own moral failings, I'm sure (and convert/re-convert). The idea of conflating the ideas of "truth" and "morality" is dangerous, in my opinion. It doesn't mean anyone knows the truth, whatever that word even means-- it much more means that someone is intent on imposing an opinion and calling it "truth."

"Progress" implies a goal. You move forward. . . toward your goal. But what is human progress? The ability to maintain the species? The ability of a particular genetic line sustaining itself?

I think you have an ideal of how the world should be. . . and that acceptance of that world view is "coming to terms" with truth, and that progress is action on that coming to terms.

But is this anything more than your choice of world view?

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