(December 12, 2015 at 3:02 am)Mechaghostman2 Wrote:

(December 11, 2015 at 5:19 pm)AtlasS33 Wrote: Huh ?

Actually, atheists are the most vicious critics of Islam, and that comes from my own personal experience in this forum !

With the fanatic Christians, Jews and nationalistic fanatics -I count nationalism as a religion-, arguments come out of blind hate and are mostly so stupid, uneducated and inclining more towards warmongering and spilling fuel on the turmoil.

Actually, they look like your profile picture.. The arguments I mean.

Atheists on the other hand, discuss smartly with well placed arguments, I was made fun of and furthermore insulted by atheists more than anybody else, I was wounded so bad in debates and had to think twice before writing any argument. And believe me, they don't like Islam xD

If you ask members here, I was led to explode before in discussions.

Discussion with atheists can turn a weak believer into an atheist. While discussion with "anti-theists" and "nationalistic brats" make Muslims more Muslims if you get my meaning

Not defending atheists in here. Just saying the truth.

So please OP, stop warmongering. I advice you to meet another member here (mralstoner), you make a pretty good team.

I'm not warmongering and that is a big strawman of my position. I critique Islam and those who follow it closely and take it seriously because a great many human rights abuses comes out of it, like stoning a woman for being raped in Saudi Arabia. 

I'm not denying there are Liberal Muslims and non-devout Muslims and just overall nice Muslim people in general, in fact I know a few of them myself. But, in the words of Richard Dawkins:

You need to differentiate between Sunni/Shia Islam & Islam : a difference so wide is between them.
Stoning and such acts, only exist in the former : Sunni/Shia Islam.

There are people who take Islam very seriously (the latter in my above sentence) : and it taught them nothing but peaceful living and despising everything evil, everything corrupting this little planet of ours.

Anyhow, you can't seriously call those who "don't take Islam seriously" as Muslims. In other words : they are only people who fool themselves or trying to fool somebody else; from my experience this type of Muslims is the source of all bigotry, oppression and corruption.

(December 11, 2015 at 5:19 pm)AtlasS33 Wrote: ...and despising everything evil...

That sounds good, depending on what you regard as "evil". If you need to be taught that it's evil in order to believe it so, then it probably isn't.

(December 12, 2015 at 11:16 am)AtlasS33 Wrote:

(December 12, 2015 at 3:02 am)Mechaghostman2 Wrote: I'm not warmongering and that is a big strawman of my position. I critique Islam and those who follow it closely and take it seriously because a great many human rights abuses comes out of it, like stoning a woman for being raped in Saudi Arabia. 

I'm not denying there are Liberal Muslims and non-devout Muslims and just overall nice Muslim people in general, in fact I know a few of them myself. But, in the words of Richard Dawkins:

You need to differentiate between Sunni/Shia Islam & Islam : a difference so wide is between them.
Stoning and such acts, only exist in the former : Sunni/Shia Islam.

There are people who take Islam very seriously (the latter in my above sentence) : and it taught them nothing but peaceful living and despising everything evil, everything corrupting this little planet of ours.

Anyhow, you can't seriously call those who "don't take Islam seriously" as Muslims. In other words : they are only people who fool themselves or trying to fool somebody else; from my experience this type of Muslims is the source of all bigotry, oppression and corruption.

Yeah, it's the same as the difference between Catholics and Protestants, who were killing each other in northern Ireland not too long ago even though their core beliefs are still the same.

Tell me, what is the penalty for leaving the Islamic faith?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pQzuFrMRA3M

(December 12, 2015 at 4:11 pm)Mechaghostman2 Wrote: Tell me, what is the penalty for leaving the Islamic faith?

You get to eat bacon, and then wash it down with bourbon?

(December 12, 2015 at 4:11 pm)Mechaghostman2 Wrote: Tell me, what is the penalty for leaving the Islamic faith?

You know that AtlasS33 is a Quran only guy, right? And that the death penalty for apostasy isn't mentioned explicitly in the Quran itself and comes form the Hadith? (please correct me if I'm wrong). Also, there are no verses mentioning Rajm (stoning) in the Quran as this comes from the Hadith too. For sure, the Quran mentions killing loads of times - but for apostates not so much.

In olden times, particularly the time of the Salaf, apostasy was seen as treason, hence you had the Apostate Wars, but then, for a while, the Muhammadans were actually better than Christians in terms of tolerance. It's only recently, with the rise of the cultural hegemony of the al-Saud family that you have these Fascists killing people all the time. Blame the Americans for supporting the spread of violence and intolerance around the world.

(December 12, 2015 at 7:14 pm)MrNoMorePropaganda Wrote: In olden times, particularly the time of the Salaf, apostasy was seen as treason, hence you had the Apostate Wars, but then, for a while, the Muhammadans were actually better than Christians in terms of tolerance. It's only recently, with the rise of the cultural hegemony of the al-Saud family that you have these Fascists killing people all the time. Blame the Americans for supporting the spread of violence and intolerance around the world.

It's much more complicated than that, although this is one contributing factor. For certain Sunnis, since Shiites don't care much about the Saud family in any case. And it's not a global phenomenon, since as i said, Islam isn't the same in Indonesia, in the Middle East or in Bosnia, to name only a few.

Books are your friends, guys, but I'm sure, I will be called an apologist again for asking for an informed opinion to even have a debate.

(December 12, 2015 at 8:41 pm)abaris Wrote:

(December 12, 2015 at 7:14 pm)MrNoMorePropaganda Wrote: In olden times, particularly the time of the Salaf, apostasy was seen as treason, hence you had the Apostate Wars, but then, for a while, the Muhammadans were actually better than Christians in terms of tolerance. It's only recently, with the rise of the cultural hegemony of the al-Saud family that you have these Fascists killing people all the time. Blame the Americans for supporting the spread of violence and intolerance around the world.

It's much more complicated than that, although this is one contributing factor. For certain Sunnis, since Shiites don't care much about the Saud family in any case. And it's not a global phenomenon, since as i said, Islam isn't the same in Indonesia, in the Middle East or in Bosnia, to name only a few.

Books are your friends, guys, but I'm sure, I will be called an apologist again for asking for an informed opinion to even have a debate.

The important fact is that Islam is no less full of camel shit than is Xtianity, and that it remains competitive as the inspiration for those who stir up hatred and violence, regardless of what it actually says. We could all spend our lives reading it all and re-reading it again, while studying the entire history of Islamic schisms and counter-schisms, but I don't see why our lives, which are very short as it is, should be so hijacked just because the shitheads exist. We can all see what people do in the name of Islam, and it's quite evil. Islam is an evil influence, and that is a fair enough judgement which can be made without a whole lifetime of study. Go ahead and call that unjust of me, Abaris, but the blood of the innocent cries out against you for the injustice of a society being hijacked by religious argument when it should be free to pursue ideas which aren't based on unfalsifiable bullshit. We need more people committing their time to the pursuit of peace without religion, of helping people regenerate organ tissue, even lost limbs (the Saudis would surely love that), better ways of fighting pathogenic diseases, and cures for cancer.

(December 10, 2015 at 6:09 pm)Amine Wrote: Why do atheists defend Islam? The ones that do, because they are haters. They became atheists because they are contrarians and they defend Islam because they are contrarians. Wrong reason.

Yes, you have us all figured out, do you? And no atheist here is defending Islam. And no one here AFAIK is being PC. I'm all for shitting on Islam and its doctrines but at the same time, be real and keep things in perspective and don't harm good Muslims with hateful words.