The problem with the argument is that you can't demand that everything need a creator, then say your preferred answer doesn't also need a creator. If something can exist without needing a creator, then why does the universe need a creator?

Special pleading.

/thread.

Yes, it's special pleading. As I said, he covers it in his own introduction with the quote at the end. I wonder whether this is a wind up.

(December 23, 2015 at 2:06 pm)Mohammed - Muslim and Proud Wrote:

(December 23, 2015 at 2:04 pm)robvalue Wrote: I already think about the systems and difficult questions. The assumption that they were created is irrelevant to their study.

How exactly do you know things that are too advanced for science? Where are you getting your information?

There are questions that you haven't thought of, and they are much harder for scientists to answer. 

"How exactly do you know things that are too advanced for science?" Is that a serious question? If we cannot observe God, and he is outside space-time, then it is of course a topic which is too advanced for science.

Your argument is self defeating. What evidence do you have for your claims, specifically that a god exists and that it is out of 'space time'?

(December 23, 2015 at 2:08 pm)Cecelia Wrote:

(December 23, 2015 at 2:01 pm)Mohammed - Muslim and Proud Wrote: You cannot say " space/dimension in which they reside ", because science is not advanced enough to make an assumption like that. Also Space has a lot of theories regarding it, and we don't know the type of space God is in (if it is space). It is too complex for science to understand at this point.

Well obviously Odin did it.  I mean if your answers to all of lifes questions can be "God did it" then mine can equally be "Odin did it"

No, my answer is that God put out systems for the universe, he created systems that created laws and etc.

About Odin.. We know that many civilizations believed in a creator, but throughout the centuries the messages changed. The creator is still the same Creator that us muslims believe in. Islam came as the final way of life, in order to not only answer the misconceptions, but also to show that God that people used to worship is the same God, that does not have partners, he is the one and only.

(December 23, 2015 at 2:09 pm)Chad32 Wrote: The problem with the argument is that you can't demand that everything need a creator, then say your preferred answer doesn't also need a creator. If something can exist without needing a creator, then why does the universe need a creator?

If God is the only thing that doesn't need a creator, then still wherever God came from would need a creator.  Even if God just POPPED into existence, he'd have to pop somewhere.  What created that somewhere?

(December 23, 2015 at 2:11 pm)Pandæmonium Wrote:

(December 23, 2015 at 2:06 pm)Mohammed - Muslim and Proud Wrote: There are questions that you haven't thought of, and they are much harder for scientists to answer. 

"How exactly do you know things that are too advanced for science?" Is that a serious question? If we cannot observe God, and he is outside space-time, then it is of course a topic which is too advanced for science.

Your argument is self defeating. What evidence do you have for your claims, specifically that a god exists and that it is out of 'space time'?

Can you observe that God is in space? no..
Therefore it is safe to conclude that God is out of space.

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(December 23, 2015 at 2:12 pm)Cecelia Wrote:

(December 23, 2015 at 2:09 pm)Chad32 Wrote: The problem with the argument is that you can't demand that everything need a creator, then say your preferred answer doesn't also need a creator. If something can exist without needing a creator, then why does the universe need a creator?

If God is the only thing that doesn't need a creator, then still wherever God came from would need a creator.  Even if God just POPPED into existence, he'd have to pop somewhere.  What created that somewhere?

Well, again.. our minds cannot handle this, because it is too complicated, because we can not observe it. Just like how we cannot imagine the 4th dimension, there are of course more dimensions, that we are not aware of.

There are too many differences between gods to say they're all the same god. for instance Zeus had a sister, which he married, and turned into animals to have sex with a bunch of human women, and had lots of sons, because there's a prophesy that he'll be defeated and need one of his children to save him. Not to mentioned that when he picked a group of people, he picked an advanced civilization. Not some backwater tribe.

Well until we find evidence of this, and come to enough understanding that we have tangible evidence to show, I suggest we not make baseless assertions.

(December 23, 2015 at 2:15 pm)Chad32 Wrote: There are too many differences between gods to say they're all the same god. for instance Zeus had a sister, which he married, and turned into animals to have sex with a bunch of human women, and had lots of sons, because there's a prophesy that he'll be defeated and need one of his children to save him. Not to mentioned that when he picked a group of people, he picked an advanced civilization. Not some backwater tribe.

I'm guessing that is what people over the centuries stated, just like how over the centuries people came up with the idea of trinity and over the centuries more ideas will come.

(December 23, 2015 at 2:12 pm)Mohammed - Muslim and Proud Wrote:

(December 23, 2015 at 2:11 pm)Pandæmonium Wrote: Your argument is self defeating. What evidence do you have for your claims, specifically that a god exists and that it is out of 'space time'?

Can you observe that God is in space? no..
Therefore it is safe to conclude that God is out of space.

Err, sorry bud, that's not how logic works. I think you might need to read up on the things you're talking about before posting about them on the Internet.

You need to actually answer my question, please do so. Until then your argument is demonstrably self defeating and can be ignored. You also need to demonstrate why your thesis isn't special pleading and thus also moot.