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RE: Personal relationships with deities
December 29, 2015 at 5:45 am
(This post was last modified: December 29, 2015 at 5:48 am by The Grand Nudger.)
If religion were effective, a puzzling mystery presents itself. The believing demographic is grossly over-represented in our prison system even -after- the assumed beneficial effect of religion(and however many people that keeps -out- of prison).
..............What is going on with that demographic to have so many fucked up people?
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Personal relationships with deities
December 29, 2015 at 5:53 am
(December 29, 2015 at 5:25 am)Rhythm Wrote: Precisely, it's....
Quote:helped me in many ways
....eh? If you're the kind of guy who'd push old ladies in the street, or skullfuck a toddler...and buddhism is what keeps you from doing that....then go for it. This, and any criticism of this must be shared by both yourself, and the god believers who offer the same explanation. Validity for either notion is based upon pragmatism in your example. Either ridicule of the one applies to the other, or you have settled for inconsistency in your comments.
But sir, "Helped me in many ways" , I don't have a deity helping me, guiding me, looking out for me or any of the things that deities do. If i want help i will ask a real person. if i want forgiveness i will ask a real person. If i want to have a meaningful conversion i will have it with a real person. i don't believe in talking to "imaginary friends". I am still confused as to why you think my beliefs are the same as theists.
What i believe "Karma" "(in Hinduism and Buddhism) the sum of a person's actions in this and previous states of existence, viewed as deciding their fate in future existences" - Google
Very very different. If i do good, good will follow and if i do bad bad will follow. My actions and i"m responsible for them. I make my fate.
Empathy works for me too. Most of the time at work i put myself into the other person shoes and think.
"No one saves us but ourselves. No one can and no one may. We ourselves must walk the path" - Gautama Buddha
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RE: Personal relationships with deities
December 29, 2015 at 5:57 am
(This post was last modified: December 29, 2015 at 6:00 am by The Grand Nudger.)
Both of your beliefs have helped you in many ways. This is a pragmatic justification (and I do admire it, btw). You can list the differences between what you believe in, and the god they believe in...but both are personal forces. You both make a pragmatic assumption of a personal force that effects outcomes in this life, and the next. You both make the pragmatic assumption that there are rules to follow in order to achieve positive outcomes from/through this force. You both make a pragmatic assumption that your belief in these concepts helps you to adhere to those rules, and achieve those outcomes.
I'll stop calling it all ridiculous just as soon as you do.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Personal relationships with deities
December 29, 2015 at 6:06 am
(This post was last modified: December 29, 2015 at 6:08 am by miaharun.)
Good Sir, i don't know if i can't understand you or vice versa. The way i believe it has helped me and asking for help is different. I believe what i have done in the past lives are what i am today. According to what i believe i must have done good deeds to attain a human life. It was all "Me", my actions. No one helped me. I don't ask anyone to provide me with good things or bad.
Asking a deity for guidance, help, forgiveness, benefits is totally different. I have to work for those things. It's in my power. Again, I am responsible for my own actions.
"No one saves us but ourselves. No one can and no one may. We ourselves must walk the path" - Gautama Buddha
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RE: Personal relationships with deities
December 29, 2015 at 6:09 am
(This post was last modified: December 29, 2015 at 6:16 am by The Grand Nudger.)
Does your belief in karma help you? You have stated, several times, that it does. Endlessly explaining what you believe to me, as though we had some disagreement as to what you believe, is tedious. You seem to have a problem with the intercessionary concept (not the personal concept). The notion that a god will help, can intercede. That's strange, I think...seeing as how karma is also intercessionary, the difference being that you are in the drivers wheel, rather than a god. You can improve your karma, can you not? You can intercede on your own behalf with your actions in this life, with regards to your next life...can you not? Say you knew, positively knew, that you had "bad karma". You could do something positive to effect that, eh?
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Personal relationships with deities
December 29, 2015 at 6:13 am
(This post was last modified: December 29, 2015 at 6:17 am by miaharun.)
Sir, to put it very briefly i have helped myself. Karma i have brought and going to do are my actions. I don't ask for help from it.
EDIT : Yes it helps me to be a good person if that's what your asking
"No one saves us but ourselves. No one can and no one may. We ourselves must walk the path" - Gautama Buddha
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RE: Personal relationships with deities
December 29, 2015 at 6:27 am
Wonderful, now...you do realize that christians -also- believe in doing positive things....right? You don't have a buddhist clench on that market. One of the many things that you both believe, is that your belief in a magical force is -one- of those things which helps you achieve a desired, positive outcome. Your first clue should have been the blank stares. People might ask god for help, they might ask questions - but very few claim to have received a spoken answer, and fewer still would claim that god personally lifted a tree off their roof with his pinky finger. They expect to do the work, same as you. In fact, many of them believe that their very belief in god is what encourages them to do good works.........
......sound familiar?
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Personal relationships with deities
December 29, 2015 at 6:31 am
(This post was last modified: December 29, 2015 at 6:33 am by miaharun.)
(December 29, 2015 at 6:09 am)Rhythm Wrote: Does your belief in karma help you? You have stated, several times, that it does. Endlessly explaining what you believe to me, as though we had some disagreement as to what you believe, is tedious. You seem to have a problem with the intercessionary concept (not the personal concept). The notion that a god will help, can intercede. That's strange, I think...seeing as how karma is also intercessionary, the difference being that you are in the drivers wheel, rather than a god. You can improve your karma, can you not? You can intercede on your own behalf with your actions in this life, with regards to your next life...can you not? Say you knew, positively knew, that you had "bad karma". You could do something positive to effect that, eh?
Yes Sir, I think now you understand me. With regards to the God concept , one can say I am my own God. Whatever i do i am responsible. I have the power to do good and bad. I believe if i have done bad Karma i have to suffer that no matter what. Just because i try to do good Karma the bad won't be erased. I have to suffer the consequences.
"No one saves us but ourselves. No one can and no one may. We ourselves must walk the path" - Gautama Buddha
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RE: Personal relationships with deities
December 29, 2015 at 6:43 am
(This post was last modified: December 29, 2015 at 6:45 am by miaharun.)
(December 29, 2015 at 6:27 am)Rhythm Wrote: Wonderful, now...you do realize that christians -also- believe in doing positive things....right? You don't have a buddhist clench on that market. One of the many things that you both believe, is that your belief in a magical force is -one- of those things which helps you achieve a desired, positive outcome. Your first clue should have been the blank stares. People might ask god for help, they might ask questions - but very few claim to have received a spoken answer, and fewer still would claim that god personally lifted a tree off their roof with his pinky finger. They expect to do the work, same as you. In fact, many of them believe that their very belief in god is what encourages them to do good works.........
......sound familiar?
of course Sir. I will never say Christians are bad people. I have dear friends who i associate very closely and love them just as anyone. Just that in my life i don't take religion/philosophy on top of my head. I never tell people that "it is because of your past karma that things are not happening as planned". I don't "think" with it or make it the most important thing in my life. It just tells me a good way to live. If i leave it to become a theist nowhere does it say that I'm going to hell or accumulate bad karma.
You fail to see one of many major differences though. Even if i wanted to, I can never ask for forgiveness for my actions. Then one is always responsible for his or hers actions.
"No one saves us but ourselves. No one can and no one may. We ourselves must walk the path" - Gautama Buddha
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RE: Personal relationships with deities
December 29, 2015 at 6:44 am
(This post was last modified: December 29, 2015 at 6:50 am by The Grand Nudger.)
Yes, yes.....we all know what you believe by now. You've had occasion to tell us many times. That's not a major difference. Christians don't think that they could simply ask for forgiveness either. If they could, there'd be no need for christ, eh?
Those things above, that you don't tell people....it isn't because you don't believe them to be true..we've already established that. You simply realize how horrid your religious leanings are in that instance, and so shut your trap. Christians do that too.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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