Not again.

Everyone with half a brain knows that muslims aren't a homogeneous mass. But to argue, muslims have got nothing to do with the current conflicts, is as idiotic as blaming all muslims for the current conflicts. Same as with every other religion, there are radicals, following their onw interpretation of the Qran. And same as with every other scripture, the Qran can be cherry picked for doing atrocities or good.

If you want to argue that Islam isn't the only reason for the current conflicts, you have a point. But not if you try to argue it has nothing to do with them.

(December 31, 2015 at 7:44 pm)abaris Wrote: Not again.

Everyone with half a brain knows that muslims aren't a homogeneous mass. But to argue, muslims have got nothing to do with the current conflicts, is as idiotic as blaming all muslims for the current conflicts. Same as with every other religion, there are radicals, following their onw interpretation of the Qran. And same as with every other scripture, the Qran can be cherry picked for doing atrocities or good.

If you want to argue that Islam isn't the only reason for the current conflicts, you have a point. But not if you try to argue it has nothing to do with them.

The sunni & shia versions of Islam do have a direct connection to what is happening in the region. 
Whoever wants to practice violence, wouldn't find it hard to cherry pick a good reason from anywhere. It's not a case limited to the Quran. 

Sunni & Shia teachings are ways of cherry picking from the Quran, resulting is a big violent mess. In other words, the two sects hold a way of understanding; that understanding is the danger; not Islam.

Elaborating more, people who study Islam do it either through the Sunni or Shia way. Though the raw faith (reassembled in the Quran) is neither dangerous nor violent. The problem is the ways people study the faith with.

(December 31, 2015 at 7:55 pm)AtlasS33 Wrote: Sunni & Shia teachings are ways of cherry picking from the Quran, resulting is  a big violent mess. In other words, the two sects hold a way of understanding; that understanding is the danger; not Islam.

Elaborating more, people who study Islam do it either through the Sunni or Shia way. Though the raw faith (reassembled in the Quran) is neither dangerous nor violent. The problem is the ways people study the faith with.

This is just the "No True Muslim" argument dressed up in pious bullshit.

Longing for the old days.

http://www.theonion.com/article/al-qaeda...dica-51995

Quote:Al-Qaeda Member Wistfully Recalls Time When Radicalization Done Face-To-Face Rather Than Online

Hmm.. seems that ISIS, Taliban, and Hezballa all have one thing in common, a desire to create a Muslim Sharia controlled area. Sounds like a pretty good link to me..

"Shia Muslims believe he should be from the descendants of the prophet.
Sunni Muslims believe he should be from the tribe of the prophet (i.e Quraish)."

Those are some stupid beliefs. People can't even prove Muhammad is a descendant of Ishmael. All they have a is a list of invented names in the Hadith.

To be clear, the Caliphate is a stupid idea, and those who would want to impose it on the whole Ummah (and perhaps everyone else) are idiots. They can't expect all of the widely different points of view to get along perfectly. People kill each other over prayer position and simple verse interpretation. Just recently Saudi banned, what they call, "liberal interpretation of the Quran" (just search Raif Badawi). There will always be tension, even if it doesn't show.

Don't get me started on this Mohammed Ibn And Al Wahhab character. He's a loser and bully. But there's no objective way of determining if his views on the literature are wrong, and millions adore him.

While we're on the subject of interpretation, has anyone got their hands on the new Study Quran (released late 2015 I think)? It includes commentary from a wide variety of sources, including Shia. But it's a bit pricey so I will have to wait a while before getting it.

I wish there were more reasonable people like you AtlasS33, but instead we have to regularly contend with gadzookery and doublespeak from victims of Saudi brainwashing like Imran Ibn Mansour and Hamza Tzortis. My brain hurts from keep on listening to nonsense.

If we define Christianity, as what Jesus truly taught, then we can say Christianity is perfect. If we define Christians as only those who know and follow the true teachings of Christ, then all of them will be perfect. However, Muslims define Christianity as what Christians teach about it. They even believe the Bible is corrupted. From that perspective, Islam and Muslims whether hadiths are corrupted or not, are part of the problem.

I don't feel God is ever to blame.

I think it's always the case that humanity would be steered in the right direction if they follow God's guidance, but it's not inevitable if God's provides perfect guidance, that humanity would follow it.

Case in point, per Quran, God revealed the book to Moses, showed all sorts of proofs in forms of miracles, and send series of Prophets and divine appointed Leaders and Guides. Despite this, the result was a disaster. They fought many of the Prophets, killed some of them, rejected some, and corrupted the revelations revealed to them.

They didn't stick to the truthful people.

However we have to deal with Judaism or Christianity as is, not simply as it ought to have been.

I believe Islam ought to have been a perfect guidance, given that God revealed a majestic book and appointed pure guided leaders and divine authorities to follow, mainly the family of Mohammad.

However, the people failed to follow the family of Mohammad, even the Shias didn't so perfectly, and attributed to them things that contradict the Quran.

The result is a disaster we have today.

That said, I don't believe Quran only approach is a solution for guidance.

I feel there is a Guide in each age, and if we turn to God often in need, in desperate need of God's guidance, he will guide us perfectly by this Guide.

It's a whole different thing if we approach religion or morality or guidance or God's book, with the intention, of turning it into what are desires say it is. It's as if we are leaders of the Quran rather then the Quran being our leader.

(December 31, 2015 at 7:55 pm)AtlasS33 Wrote: The sunni & shia versions of Islam do have a direct connection to what is happening in the region. 
Whoever wants to practice violence, wouldn't find it hard to cherry pick a good reason from anywhere. It's not a case limited to the Quran. 

Yes, your understanding. But we're witnessing Sunni violence at the moment. Carried out by people having a differrent understanding, but using the same book. In short, cherry picked violence, only using the violent Suras. You probably subscribe to the non violent Suras about helping people. But both, violent and good, as I already said, can be found in any holy book. And people act according to their nature and the environment the grew up in.

(January 1, 2016 at 10:30 am)abaris Wrote:

(December 31, 2015 at 7:55 pm)AtlasS33 Wrote: The sunni & shia versions of Islam do have a direct connection to what is happening in the region. 
Whoever wants to practice violence, wouldn't find it hard to cherry pick a good reason from anywhere. It's not a case limited to the Quran. 

Yes, your understanding. But we're witnessing Sunni violence at the moment. Carried out by people having a differrent understanding, but using the same book. In short, cherry picked violence, only using the violent Suras. You probably subscribe to the non violent Suras about helping people. But both, violent and good, as I already said, can be found in any holy book. And people act according to their nature and the environment the grew up in.

They don't just use the same book.  Beyond the quran the sunni and shia religions also follow hadith, they differ on which of these hadith books they follow, which they find reliable and so on.