(January 3, 2016 at 12:18 pm)MysticKnight Wrote: Words like evidence, proofs, knowledge, signs, existed way before scientific method.

That's called progress.
Does your weather broadcaster do a rain dance on the TV prior to announcing the 5 day forecast?

(January 3, 2016 at 12:18 pm)MysticKnight Wrote: Words like evidence, proofs, knowledge, signs, existed way before scientific method.

Of course. After the scientific method, there was a mechanism to actually prove if they are justified or not.

Quote:Knowledge is simply warranted justified belief. Sure knowledge is higher then that.

And the fact remains, most theists are fine with weak justification for their beliefs.

Quote:Atheists want to define words to suit their Agenda. They define "faith" in a way that makes it unreasonable to have.

The word "faith" has several definitions. The one that theists tend to use is "belief without evidence". If that is the way they are using the term, their belief is unreasonable by definition. 

What I find interesting is, most theists do not apply faith for any other claim besides their god beliefs. Ask a theist why they don't believe in: bigfoot, alien abductions, dowsing, telekinesis, Ley Lines, etc, etc, and vast majority will reject them based on the lack of evidence. But when we do the same for your god beliefs, we are the ones that are missing something. 
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Scientific knowledge. Spiritual belief. You can have spiritual knowledge but it is only knowledge about the belief.

(January 3, 2016 at 9:35 pm)mh.brewer Wrote: Scientific knowledge. Spiritual belief. You can have spiritual knowledge but it is only knowledge about the belief.

What would you put belief in morals and human value in? In spiritual belief or scientific knowledge?

(January 3, 2016 at 9:49 pm)MysticKnight Wrote:

(January 3, 2016 at 9:35 pm)mh.brewer Wrote: Scientific knowledge. Spiritual belief. You can have spiritual knowledge but it is only knowledge about the belief.

What would you put belief in morals and human value in? In spiritual belief or scientific knowledge?

Practical philosophy.

(Light hearted joke )

An atheist, a deist and a religious theist find a treasure chest. It's locked up tight, and there's no way to investigate what's inside.

Atheist: "I wonder if there is anything inside."

Deist: "Of course there is something inside. I wonder what it is."

Theist: "It's a potion of eternal life."

As far as i know, the former is testable, measurable and usable, the latter is not.

(January 4, 2016 at 3:53 am)robvalue Wrote: (Light hearted joke )

An atheist, a deist and a religious theist find a treasure chest. It's locked up tight, and there's no way to investigate what's inside.

Atheist: "I wonder if there is anything inside."

Deist: "Of course there is something inside. I wonder what it is."

Theist: "It's a potion of eternal life."

Wonder what they would say if they could open it but there was nothing inside.

(January 3, 2016 at 12:18 pm)MysticKnight Wrote: Words like evidence, proofs, knowledge, signs, existed way before scientific method.

Knowledge is simply warranted justified belief. Sure knowledge is higher then that.

Atheists want to define words to suit their Agenda. They define "faith" in a way that makes it unreasonable to have.

You asserted a lot.  A child perhaps hasn't proven to itself rationally that it has value, perpetual identity, worth, praise, etc, but it can believe in these things and be justified in doing so.  They can know a moral truth without a long justification of it and express it even the need occurs without requiring to prove it in a long philosophical argument or without relying on the scientific method to prove it.

I asserted a lot, but you didn't really address any of it in your response. I'm sorry, but it feels like you aren't really saying anything, or I am not understanding it correctly.

What the hell is an atheist's agenda?