(January 4, 2016 at 1:57 pm)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:

(January 4, 2016 at 1:37 pm)excitedpenguin Wrote: I don't believe in apologies.

So, how's that working out for you?

What, being rational about a meaningless concept? Pretty well actually.

EP is evidence of the disastrous consequences of parents lying to children; telling them how smart and special they are while filling their rooms full of participation trophies.

(January 3, 2016 at 9:01 am)paulpablo Wrote: In you're opinion whether you're a parent or not, how honest should parents be with their children when teaching them about life in this world?

Do you think children deserve a little chill out time not having to worry about global warming, sex, drugs, death, religion and money? 

Or just teach them everything you know right away.

Surely most people would say the best way is somewhere inbetween total insulation from the real world while at the same time not telling them all the mentally disturbing facts about the world too soon?

There should only be one lie. Santa exists and that should teach them the one lesson that you can't even believe what parents tell them all the time.
Teach the truth but at a level they will understand.
If they ask about where babies come from  telling them all the ins and outs is apparently frowned on.

Be as honest as possible within reason. If there are ever any exceptions it would only be to really protect your child/children, and it would be very rare that an outright lie would be required to do that, if ever. Simply not telling them everything until they are old enough to understand may be enough.

Lying to children almost always causes unnecessary harm at worst and unnecessary confusion at best.

I'm guessing. I am no parent and feel free to correct me if I'm wrong folks, this is just how I feel about it if I were to become a parent.

(January 4, 2016 at 2:14 pm)downbeatplumb Wrote:

(January 3, 2016 at 9:01 am)paulpablo Wrote: In you're opinion whether you're a parent or not, how honest should parents be with their children when teaching them about life in this world?

Do you think children deserve a little chill out time not having to worry about global warming, sex, drugs, death, religion and money? 

Or just teach them everything you know right away.

Surely most people would say the best way is somewhere inbetween total insulation from the real world while at the same time not telling them all the mentally disturbing facts about the world too soon?

There should only be one lie. Santa exists and that should teach them the one lesson that you can't even believe what parents tell them all the time.
Teach the truth but at a level they will understand.
If they ask about where babies come from  telling them all the ins and outs is apparently frowned on.

Well in some circles yes it's frowned upon, but that's what I meant by age appropriate responses.  Something like where babies come for a 5 year old just isn't going to grasp all the biology.  When they are 11 or 12 they can understand and grasp it much better so the response can be very different.  I always find its best not to give long winded answers and don't give them more than they asked for.  Answer the question, short and honest and let them ask more if they want to.

(January 4, 2016 at 2:05 pm)Cato Wrote: EP is evidence of the disastrous consequences of parents lying to children; telling them how smart and special they are while filling their rooms full of participation trophies.

Oh, wow, not even close to what actually happened.

(January 4, 2016 at 2:21 pm)Evie Wrote: Be as honest as possible within reason. If there are ever any exceptions it would only be to really protect your child/children, and it would be very rare that an outright lie would be required to do that, if ever. Simply not telling them everything until they are old enough to understand may be enough.

Lying to children almost always causes unnecessary harm at worst and unnecessary confusion at best.

I'm guessing.  I am no parent and feel free to correct me if I'm wrong folks, this is just how I feel about it if I were to become a parent.

Lying to children causes in harm in that when they discover the lie, they lose trust in you and that's not good.  Kids need to be able to trust their parents.  If you say you will do something, do it.  If you tell them something, be sure it's the truth.  Holding back detail to protect them is perfectly fine.

(January 4, 2016 at 2:25 pm)Kingpin Wrote:

(January 4, 2016 at 2:21 pm)Evie Wrote: Be as honest as possible within reason. If there are ever any exceptions it would only be to really protect your child/children, and it would be very rare that an outright lie would be required to do that, if ever. Simply not telling them everything until they are old enough to understand may be enough.

Lying to children almost always causes unnecessary harm at worst and unnecessary confusion at best.

I'm guessing.  I am no parent and feel free to correct me if I'm wrong folks, this is just how I feel about it if I were to become a parent.

Lying to children causes in harm in that when they discover the lie, they lose trust in you and that's not good.  Kids need to be able to trust their parents.  If you say you will do something, do it.  If you tell them something, be sure it's the truth.  Holding back detail to protect them is perfectly fine.

You can say that again...

(January 4, 2016 at 2:25 pm)Kingpin Wrote: Lying to children causes in harm in that when they discover the lie, they lose trust in you and that's not good.

Absolutely. I would say never ever lie to children apart from maybe some extremely rare exceptions to protect them that I can't even think of.

I'm just wondering if there may be ever ever ever one tiny example of some tiny tiny white lie that would help. For all intents and purposes in practice, never lie to them.

I could be completely wrong and I am not a parent. Maybe it's wrong to ever ever ever ever lie to your children no matter what the circumstance no matter how rare or special the circumstance is.

Quote: Kids need to be able to trust their parents.  If you say you will do something, do it.  If you tell them something, be sure it's the truth.  Holding back detail to protect them is perfectly fine.

You're absolutely right KP, I am merely not ruling out the possibility that the whitest of lie might be preferable possibily perhaps on some occasion, maybe at least just the once. I completely agree that 100% honest with children is basically 100% the moral and rightful way to go.

And I could be 100% wrong about there ever being an exception, and I can't even think of any examples. And after all, I'm not a parent.

I'm a consequentialist. So I believe that whatever action causes the best long term consequences is best. Problem is one doesn't know what the consequences will be, so the best thing to do generally is to follow basic moral principles. But I am open to the possibility of extremely rare exceptions. And even then it would only be the absolute whitest of lies and it would have to have a huge payoff and be really really needed to help the child or children.

I'm just being extremely pedantic so as to be clear about 100% what my view is.

If I was so sum it up in the most basic way of all: Don't lie to children it only hurts them and teaches them to also be dishonest themselves. That's my basic view. I'm just being pedantic as always lol.

(January 4, 2016 at 2:01 pm)excitedpenguin Wrote:

(January 4, 2016 at 1:57 pm)Thumpalumpacus Wrote: So, how's that working out for you?

What, being rational about a meaningless concept? Pretty well actually.

... as if apologies are irrational ....


... pegged.