(January 4, 2016 at 2:06 pm)Kingpin Wrote:

(January 4, 2016 at 1:51 pm)LadyForCamus Wrote: I have no personal anger toward theists.  What you choose to believe is none of my business unless your belief is directly harming me in some way.  If there is anger toward theists here, it is because this is an ATHEIST forum, and atheists get annoyed with theists coming here and regularly telling us how stupid and ignorant we are.  This is our home, leave us be.

I wasn't insinuating you were and those that know me on here would know that I never proselytize or impose my beliefs on anyone.  I was merely wondering if you have seen atheists on this site also have immense anger towards believers just as you say Christians come on here in anger towards non-believers.  I agree with you that each persons beliefs are their own and should stay that way.

Where I don't agree is your last statement.  Yes this is called Atheist Forums but from what I understand is this is a place for people of all beliefs to come and have respectful discourse regarding any topic including religion.  There are rules in place to stop the preachers and I fully support them, I just want to make sure I was not misunderstanding you and that you feel Christians (or other theists) should just leave and not post because I don't see how that is beneficial for anyone.  How can we grow as individuals if we don't reach out to others who believe differently than us and have respectful conversation?

I'm sorry, I misread your question. I haven't been a member here for very long so it's hard to say. I have seen a few posts from atheists here that have come across very angry, but most of the anger and contempt I have witnessed here personally has been from the theists. I am sure there is some unjust anger floating around from both sides.

On the second point, I apologize for not being clear. I absolutely didn't mean to imply that all theists should stay away from here. I only meant for the angry trolls who roll in and insult everyone to keep away. They aren't interested in true discussion, and it only upsets people.

I don't find the word "spiritual" useful.

Whoa! Let me make myself clear to everyone! I do NOT mean that no theists should be a part of AF. When I say "leave us be," I am talking about trolls who come here with the sole intention insulting us, and preaching with contempt. Those types of people are not looking to engage, they are just looking for attention. I have learned a lot here from both the atheists and the theists. I was actually about to credit Chadwooters for some stuff until he called me stupid and ignorant a few posts up, lol.

(January 4, 2016 at 4:26 pm)MysticKnight Wrote:

(January 4, 2016 at 4:23 pm)Simon Moon Wrote: Sure we are. 

I value my life, the life of my family and friends, and by reason of being a human being, biased toward my own species, I have the ability to extrapolate value on to others I do  not personally know.

All it takes is a bit of empathy, our evolutionary past, and logic and reason. 

There is zero reason to posit a deity in order to value human beings.

What scientific evidence is there to prove human worth or value?

Did you base your belief in human value on science or other then that?

Do you believe humans before scientific method were justified in believing in human value or not?

Mystic,

It IS science though. It is the science of of our species, and how we evolved. Having a sense of value and empathy is advantageous to our survival. Maybe we didn't alway have scientific language to describe it, but that is what science is. Continual progress and advancement.

(January 4, 2016 at 4:32 pm)Evie Wrote:

(January 4, 2016 at 4:14 pm)ChadWooters Wrote: 1) AF would be very very dull if not for theists.

No it would still be very interesting and still be full of awesome people, it would be just less interesting and full of less awesome people, although many of the theists are not so interesting (as many of the atheists aren't).

Quote:2) I don't tell everyone they are stupid and ignorant, just people like you.

Well you're wrong, she isn't. It's also rude and unnecessary to say to her.

It's okay, Evie. [emoji41]. Being rude and condescending is his thing, I'm learning. It's what happens when you have no way of justifying your justified true beliefs to people who disagree with you.

Hehe.

(January 4, 2016 at 4:16 pm)ChadWooters Wrote:

(January 4, 2016 at 4:06 pm)Jörmungandr Wrote: Is there justified true belief of spiritual things?  How does one verify that their beliefs about spirituality are justified and true?

What of the spiritual is considered knowledge?

How do you distinguish between what you call a "spiritual" belief from the set of all possible beliefs?

You didn't answer the question. I think a true and justified belief should at least be demonstrable to others, or else how could you justify it to be true to anyone but yourself?

(January 4, 2016 at 4:10 pm)ChadWooters Wrote:

(January 4, 2016 at 12:09 pm)LadyForCamus Wrote: I find it perplexing how so many theists are unable to grasp the concept of "lack of belief."

Oh, we get it. It's either disingenuous or trivial. If it's a simply a lack of belief then it is trivial. Except when it isn't. For some reason it is really really important for you to take a stance in opposition to the proposition that God(s) exist.

That might have something to do with believers forcing their views on others rather than having the decency to keep a private matter private.

I've never had anyone knock on my door asking me if I had considered atheism.. It'd be nice if I could say the same about believers.

Thank you Red Wind

Rob's awesome indeed.