(January 14, 2016 at 12:47 pm)Rhythm Wrote: No, he wasn't.  There was no Joseph.  You are referring to fiction as though it were indicative of the nature of slavery in reality.  You are also, clearly, incapable of actually accepting that which you profess to have made peace with, attempting to redefine slavery as something entirely less shitty than it is and was.

I'll ask again..what does someone else's predatory business model have to do with what I, or anyone else here, for that matter, condones or finds acceptable?

which was the point of the OP...

Proof from an Egyptian/archeaological perspective that Joseph did indeed live.

(January 14, 2016 at 1:05 pm)dyresand Wrote:

(January 14, 2016 at 12:45 pm)Drich Wrote: What makes you think all slaves are treated inhumanely?

Joseph was a slave to Pharaoh and literally ruled all of Egypt. He was the most powerful person besides pharaoh himself.

Like wise if you have a child most of the world considers that child as being owned by it's parents. even if the western verbiage is different and we do not call them property, do we not still treat/restrict a child's behavior to one degree or another? In effect 'owning a child by action if not by decree?' Even if were to declare to own our children Does it mean we would treat them any differently?

Understand drysand what I am saying here is not a matter of whether it is ok to own a slave or not. What I am saying as we as a country would fall apart without the work of the slaves this country currently uses everyday! They are here and you could not live life without them!!! The only difference being 'soceity' does not own up to owning slaves which means they are not getting the protection the bible offers. In short because people like you will not accept that their lives are built on the backs of modern slaves, modern slaves are treated as bad if not worse than the chattle slaves of the 1700s

I dunno.. take a good look at american history and slave trades and also do a little research on the first slave ship the good
jesus or what ever. Because that is what biblical slavery looked like and it still happens slavery is still a thing. Slaves regardless even in the biblical age were treated like shit if you were a jewish slave you get treated better if you werent a jew you would get the shit beaten out of you.

Again, Not all slaves were treated badly I gave examples from the bible and modern times. Why don't you try addressing the points I made rather than speaking about the stereotype your comfortable with?

Also the fact that I'm giving you points about slavery you are not familiar with should indicate to you that I have indeed 'done my research.' your turn.

Leave it to Drippy to argue the good morality of slavery.

(January 14, 2016 at 1:21 pm)SnakeOilWarrior Wrote: Leave it to Drippy to argue the good morality of slavery.

Considering that Catholics are notorious at arguing for the goodness of pedo priests and an obviously corrupt church, it is not all that surprising.

(January 14, 2016 at 12:59 pm)Drich Wrote: Again since you seem to be of the petros school of understanding, I will break it down further:

Yes, please do, continue until we can find some spec of sense in all of this  inanity.  

Quote:Your life is filled with food and products that were grown assembled or produced by people who make little to nothing/can not support their lives for what money they make, and therefore are often indebted to the company they work for to subsidize their basic needs, which means they can not leave their jobs. This is not an example of a chattle slave but a slave none the less by definition. (A person held in servitude; one that is completely subservient to another)

-and..what.....does someone else's predatory business model, which is not slavery to begin with, have to do with me...and whether or not I condone slavery? I'm left wondering, additionally..when you snuck into my house and took inventory? How you managed to determine the provenance of my possessions?

Your fantasies about joseph are useless in this regard, and would be irrelevant even if they were actually true, so I think we can let that dog lie.

(January 14, 2016 at 1:14 pm)Drich Wrote:

(January 14, 2016 at 12:47 pm)Rhythm Wrote: No, he wasn't.  There was no Joseph.  You are referring to fiction as though it were indicative of the nature of slavery in reality.  You are also, clearly, incapable of actually accepting that which you profess to have made peace with, attempting to redefine slavery as something entirely less shitty than it is and was.

I'll ask again..what does someone else's predatory business model have to do with what I, or anyone else here, for that matter, condones or finds acceptable?

which was the point of the OP...

Proof from an Egyptian/archeaological perspective that Joseph did indeed live.

If only you had some you'd be golden.  Sadly, what you have is evidence of a foreign dynasty of rulers.... not slaves.

Asshole.

(January 14, 2016 at 1:23 pm)Kitan Wrote:

(January 14, 2016 at 1:21 pm)SnakeOilWarrior Wrote: Leave it to Drippy to argue the good morality of slavery.

Considering that Catholics are notorious at arguing for the goodness of pedo priests and an obviously corrupt church, it is not all that surprising.

Drich isn't Catholic.

(January 14, 2016 at 1:17 pm)Drich Wrote:

(January 14, 2016 at 1:05 pm)dyresand Wrote: I dunno.. take a good look at american history and slave trades and also do a little research on the first slave ship the good
jesus or what ever. Because that is what biblical slavery looked like and it still happens slavery is still a thing. Slaves regardless even in the biblical age were treated like shit if you were a jewish slave you get treated better if you werent a jew you would get the shit beaten out of you.

Again, Not all slaves were treated badly I gave examples from the bible and modern times. Why don't you try addressing the points I made rather than speaking about the stereotype your comfortable with?

Also the fact that I'm giving you points about slavery you are not familiar with should indicate to you that I have indeed 'done my research.' your turn.

Ahem citation please.. because you know slaves were beaten killed and even  raped etc. 
Slaves are not treated like human beings they are treated less than human.

(January 14, 2016 at 1:12 pm)Drich Wrote:

(January 14, 2016 at 12:44 pm)Stimbo Wrote: The morality of homosexuality didn't change; society's perception of it changed. Consensual sexuality is never immoral by nature, whereas owning another human as property is and always has been.

This is not true.

Your framing these acts through the lens of modern morality. from your current vantage point you can say A was never ok or b always was despite what the people who live in a society thought 50 years ago.

 We know this because 50 years ago their were laws on the book identifying homosexuality as being a criminal offense, therefore an immoral act in most states. where as now it is legal for gays to get married. Their was a paradigm shift in morality concerning homosexuality in this country.

If your going to be a self-righteous douche and claim the high ground while ignoring history, I'd like you to go ahead and list all of the other 'morally right' things society currently deems immoral/illegal. Where does underage sex, incest, and sex with animals rank in your version of 'always been moral?' What if all parties give their consent? After all you did say:

stimbo Wrote:Consensual sexuality is never immoral by nature,

I think most of us don't care one way or another about incest.
Animals cannot give consent.
Children can, but it wouldn't be considered informed consent since children really don't understand/grasp things (even when they think they do).  That's why we don't let them vote, make important financial decisions, etc.

Regarding biblical slavery, your entire "It still happens today and you condone it!" show is merely a transparent way to equivocate.  If we condone slavery in the 21st century, then we have no right to criticize the slavery mentioned in the bible.  Except, we don't actively condone it.  It's a fact of life that, given how globalized capitalism works, individual people cannot do much about it because, as you say, our entire culture is built upon cheaply produced goods.  And we have no viable second option.

So, no, it's not that we accept (as in approve, morally support) slavery.  It's that we're not in a position to change it much.

You'll note, however, that there is a global push to improve working conditions and worker safety around the world.  The notion that one can beat their slave/employee is considered grossly immoral by most, and that's why we take issue with that particular portion of the bible.  As you noted with laws regarding homosexuality, morality is subjective and changes over time.  And that's why we scoff at the idea of the bible being a font of objective morality.  Because objective clearly morality doesn't exist.  Morality is never static.  It's, instead, based on ideas of equity and fairness, and those are always fluid.

So, it really doesn't matter if ancient Jews felt that it was okay to beat slaves so long as they didn't die.  Generally speaking, we're beyond that in thought if not practice, and the practice is largely out of our control due to a variety of factors.

(January 14, 2016 at 1:09 pm)ApeNotKillApe Wrote:

Quote:What makes you think all slaves are treated inhumanely?

They're SLAVES.

so?

Ever own a pair of Nikes?

http://ihscslnews.org/view_article.php?id=32

This is not even the worst example.

Now when the light of slavery is shown on their efforts we get better conditions for the workers/slaves.
They still do not make even 3 dollars aday in most countries, but the conditions have so improved that people are in line to get these slave wage jobs.

Why? Because they are not treated badly and the alternative is far worse/work for someone who pays less and still beats them.
http://www.businessinsider.com/how-nike-...lem-2013-5
(the title is misleading it's still a sweat shop/slave labor factory, it that they treat their people marginally better than everyone else.)