You're clearly unmoved by facts, or by the answers to the questions you made of me...so I'll simply ask again....

What does someone else's predatory business model...which I neither condone nor engage in...which is still not slavery in the first place....have to do with me and what I condone, particularly in regards to slavery?

(January 14, 2016 at 12:24 pm)Drich Wrote: That's not true. that is why I gave you the example of Homosexuality and the societal view on it.

50 years ago it was beyond immoral. Now pop culture says it is immoral to say Homosexuality is a sin and homosexuality is 'moral.' The 'morality' changed with pop culture. Man's morality is not an absolute. It is tied to whatever the culture will allow/condone. That is why God's righteousness/What the bible says about slavery is wrong to you. The culture change the bible/God did not.

The morality of homosexuality didn't change; society's perception of it changed. Consensual sexuality is never immoral by nature, whereas owning another human as property is and always has been.

(January 14, 2016 at 12:19 pm)dyresand Wrote:

(January 14, 2016 at 11:38 am)Drich Wrote: that's great! so may I ask why use migrant workers at all? why not simply staff from a day labor pool??

I'm asking because we both know that the labor laws are far less strict when it comes to treatment of workers and child labor laws. That is why people use and the government allows for 'migrant work' that is the key difference in that they are not subject to federal minimum wage requirements, OSHA protection, no workers comp laws, No over time requirements, or labor restrictions, child labor laws are far more liberal (10 year olds can be used in some crops) the list goes on and can be found on a official government site.. The point being I'm sure if you switched over to a labor ready or some other legit day labor company your migrant workers would funnel through them, and enjoy the federal protections this government mandates to every other field of work, rather than working for you directly without any type of federally mandated safety net..

All that said, Unless you do supply the whole country with everything a migrant worker is allowed to process, then I say my point stands. Because even if you (some micro farm) supplies even a large chain like whole foods with one product, the rest of the industry is indeed using migrant workers as far as the law will allow them to be used!

Owning another human being is immoral even if everyone agreed slavery is okay doesn't make it okay.
What if you were a slave you wouldn't like to get treated inhumanly slaves in biblical days and modern days
are treated sub human and even like trash.

What makes you think all slaves are treated inhumanely?

Joseph was a slave to Pharaoh and literally ruled all of Egypt. He was the most powerful person besides pharaoh himself.

Like wise if you have a child most of the world considers that child as being owned by it's parents. even if the western verbiage is different and we do not call them property, do we not still treat/restrict a child's behavior to one degree or another? In effect 'owning a child by action if not by decree?' Even if were to declare to own our children Does it mean we would treat them any differently?

Understand drysand what I am saying here is not a matter of whether it is ok to own a slave or not. What I am saying as we as a country would fall apart without the work of the slaves this country currently uses everyday! They are here and you could not live life without them!!! The only difference being 'soceity' does not own up to owning slaves which means they are not getting the protection the bible offers. In short because people like you will not accept that their lives are built on the backs of modern slaves, modern slaves are treated as bad if not worse than the chattle slaves of the 1700s

No, he wasn't.  There was no Joseph.  You are referring to fiction as though it were indicative of the nature of slavery in reality. You are also, clearly, incapable of actually accepting that which you profess to have made peace with, attempting to redefine slavery as something entirely less shitty than it is and was.

I'll ask again..what does someone else's predatory business model have to do with what I, or anyone else here, for that matter, condones or finds acceptable?

The farce is strong with drippy.

(January 14, 2016 at 12:28 pm)Rhythm Wrote:

(January 14, 2016 at 12:20 pm)Drich Wrote: Wake up sport. You may own a small family farm and can afford to charge a premium for your 'organically grown cabbage' (or whatever product you grow/sell) so you can afford to give your workers a rate comparable to $8.00 per hour burger flipper. (Remember you are bragging about being on the high end of the pay scale.)

Organic cabbage?  I don;t grow organic anything.....I'm not a scammer, remember, lol?  I'm actually -not- at the high end of the pay scale for my model.  If anything...slightly below average.

Quote:I am pointing out a federally mandated and protected slave class, that other people other companies do not have to pay well. It's great that you pay as much or even more than minimum wage, but know it is not required in the field of work. If it is not required do you really think that a company who sells their cabbage  for 50% less than what you do whole sale will pay their workers the same amount of money you pay your guys?

-and I;m pointing out that I neither engage in nor condone their model..which is all that I need to point out to put the lie to your claim utterly and completely.

Quote:Especially if the government does not mandate it?

You don't know what the government actually does or doesn't mandate, a fact made explicitly clear in your previous comments.  

Quote:I have work in refrigeration for the last 24 years.

Is that what they call it at your McDonalds when you grab the eggs out of the walkin?

Quote:I own a company who builds and sell coolers freezers for storage and the refrigerated trucks/vans that deliver this product all of the country. as a result I have traveled all over the country selling and installing equipment to big corporate farms and micro farmers, and I have seen all of this first hand from the ground all the way through production and final delivery to market. for just about everything one can buy at a supermarket. I have seen the same pattern repeated over and over and over again. Why? It's The only way everyone can eat affordably. That is to have caged eggs, 'enriched' beef/meats and assembly line produce where cost is cut at every corner. Labor being the greatest expense, and easiest to cut.

My food costs less to the consumer than the wholesale products and yet I still make a better roi.  Use your business acumen to figure out why that might be, and how it..again...puts the lie to another of your claims.

Quote:And even that is too much. That is why we now have stores like Aldi who get their food from countries who have absolutely no restrictions on labor and according to that USA today article still own chattle slaves. just so we can have more affordable food.

Someone else's predatory business model has what to do with me and what I condone, again?  

Quote:You are a rare exception and not the rule.

I'm neither, actually.  

Quote:So the short answer why do I point to a worst case? Because that is what this government allows, and I see it abused (people getting paid less/worked more) But again I also see the need. Like you said we all have to eat. Their is no way to feed everyone unless we have slaves doing the stuff slaves have always done. We have yet to create a society on mass not dependent on slavery in one form or another.

You point to a worst case because you -are- a worst case....and familiarity breeds comfort.  What the fuck is the problem here Drich?  You condone slavery and I do not...why are you incapable of accepting that?  Why is it that you need everyone to be like you?


Holy shit...I think we've found your shame.......and I was almost certain it didn't exist.

brother unless you grow your cars, trucks, electronic devices, meats and produce, and all the other material that make your life possible.. You do indeed condone slavery. Because even if the products you buy are assembled/produced in a country with fair wage practices, your not going to be able to account for all the low cost parts that go into a given device.
Again, you would not be able to afford to live if you paid everyone a fair living wage for every aspect and all the little parts and pieces that go into that life unless you yourself do not pull directly from the ground. (were able to source it at little to no cost.)

(January 14, 2016 at 12:38 pm)Rhythm Wrote: You're clearly unmoved by facts, or by the answers to the questions you made of me...so I'll simply ask again....

What does someone else's predatory business model...which I neither condone nor engage in...which is still not slavery in the first place....have to do with me and what I condone, particularly in regards to slavery?

Again since you seem to be of the petros school of understanding, I will break it down further:

Your life is filled with food and products that were grown assembled or produced by people who make little to nothing/can not support their lives for what money they make, and therefore are often indebted to the company they work for to subsidize their basic needs, which means they can not leave their jobs. This is not an example of a chattle slave but a slave none the less by definition. (A person held in servitude; one that is completely subservient to another)

(January 14, 2016 at 12:45 pm)Drich Wrote:

(January 14, 2016 at 12:19 pm)dyresand Wrote: Owning another human being is immoral even if everyone agreed slavery is okay doesn't make it okay.
What if you were a slave you wouldn't like to get treated inhumanly slaves in biblical days and modern days
are treated sub human and even like trash.

What makes you think all slaves are treated inhumanely?

Joseph was a slave to Pharaoh and literally ruled all of Egypt. He was the most powerful person besides pharaoh himself.

Like wise if you have a child most of the world considers that child as being owned by it's parents. even if the western verbiage is different and we do not call them property, do we not still treat/restrict a child's behavior to one degree or another? In effect 'owning a child by action if not by decree?' Even if were to declare to own our children Does it mean we would treat them any differently?

Understand drysand what I am saying here is not a matter of whether it is ok to own a slave or not. What I am saying as we as a country would fall apart without the work of the slaves this country currently uses everyday! They are here and you could not live life without them!!! The only difference being 'soceity' does not own up to owning slaves which means they are not getting the protection the bible offers. In short because people like you will not accept that their lives are built on the backs of modern slaves, modern slaves are treated as bad if not worse than the chattle slaves of the 1700s

I dunno.. take a good look at american history and slave trades and also do a little research on the first slave ship the good
jesus or what ever. Because that is what biblical slavery looked like and it still happens slavery is still a thing. Slaves regardless even in the biblical age were treated like shit if you were a jewish slave you get treated better if you werent a jew you would get the shit beaten out of you.

Quote:What makes you think all slaves are treated inhumanely?

They're SLAVES.

(January 14, 2016 at 12:44 pm)Stimbo Wrote:

(January 14, 2016 at 12:24 pm)Drich Wrote: That's not true. that is why I gave you the example of Homosexuality and the societal view on it.

50 years ago it was beyond immoral. Now pop culture says it is immoral to say Homosexuality is a sin and homosexuality is 'moral.' The 'morality' changed with pop culture. Man's morality is not an absolute. It is tied to whatever the culture will allow/condone. That is why God's righteousness/What the bible says about slavery is wrong to you. The culture change the bible/God did not.

The morality of homosexuality didn't change; society's perception of it changed. Consensual sexuality is never immoral by nature, whereas owning another human as property is and always has been.

This is not true.

Your framing these acts through the lens of modern morality. from your current vantage point you can say A was never ok or b always was despite what the people who live in a society thought 50 years ago.

 We know this because 50 years ago their were laws on the book identifying homosexuality as being a criminal offense, therefore an immoral act in most states. where as now it is legal for gays to get married. Their was a paradigm shift in morality concerning homosexuality in this country.

If your going to be a self-righteous douche and claim the high ground while ignoring history, I'd like you to go ahead and list all of the other 'morally right' things society currently deems immoral/illegal. Where does underage sex, incest, and sex with animals rank in your version of 'always been moral?' What if all parties give their consent? After all you did say:

stimbo Wrote:Consensual sexuality is never immoral by nature,