(January 19, 2016 at 3:48 pm)God of Mr. Hanky Wrote:

(January 19, 2016 at 3:28 pm)CapnAwesome Wrote: Hypothetically, if Hitler had fled to South America and escaped justice until he was 90, would you guys not want him prosecuted because he is old?

Oh, for fuck's sake, the bedpan specialists were only grunts who did what they were told because they like to eat and sleep indoors! I believe that non-sequitor really shows your bias.

What you said is totally untrue historically. People didn't randomly end up working in the death camps, they wanted to be there. Most were members of the SS who joined the SS out of their own free will.

I don't know, they still were party to it, and even in the states there is no statute of limitations on murder. Now if they simply were not planning it and simply followed out of fear, that would be a better case. But yea, seems to lack pragmatism. I am sure it would be a harder case to make to a German Jew to say "Hey they are too old to do that to them" if you are a German Jew who survived or had family you know died. But add the Dementia in yea, seems pointless.

Having said that I do hate Israeli Jews milking the Holocaust to justify land grabs. As insightful as Ann Frank was, I doubt she would agree with everything modern Israel does.

(January 19, 2016 at 5:26 pm)CapnAwesome Wrote:

(January 19, 2016 at 3:48 pm)God of Mr. Hanky Wrote: Oh, for fuck's sake, the bedpan specialists were only grunts who did what they were told because they like to eat and sleep indoors! I believe that non-sequitor really shows your bias.

What you said is totally untrue historically. People didn't randomly end up working in the death camps, they wanted to be there. Most were members of the SS who joined the SS out of their own free will.

Not to mention the fact that camp guards weren't soldiers, but rather SS. Only one branch of the SS were given military status.

Quote:The concentration camp guards were not drafted soldiers. They were people volunteered to be in those positions.

I recall reading an article about this one time and the answer was, it varied.  Some were party hacks who never did anything else except guard camps but others were soldiers, wehrmacht or SS, who had been wounded and were not considered fit for front-line service any more.  Some were captured soldiers from the Polish/Russian/Balkan regions who were probably glad for a chance to get out of POW camps themselves and, as an added benefit, didn't like Jews either.

(January 19, 2016 at 6:16 pm)Thumpalumpacus Wrote: Not to mention the fact that camp guards weren't soldiers, but rather SS. Only one branch of the SS were given military status.

Not entirely true. There has been a fluctuation between field units and guards. Mengele was a field surgeon before going to Auschwitz in 1943. Later on, to cover the losses, recruits were drafted for service in the SS, and, in rare cases, dispatched for concentration camp service.

Only before the war it was entirely voluntary.

That's why every case has to be looked at individually. It's murky waters and noone should get a pass for being there. But at the same time, noone should be judged, simply based on being there.

(January 19, 2016 at 7:28 pm)abaris Wrote:

(January 19, 2016 at 6:16 pm)Thumpalumpacus Wrote: Not to mention the fact that camp guards weren't soldiers, but rather SS. Only one branch of the SS were given military status.

Not entirely true. There has been a fluctuation between field units and guards. Mengele was a field surgeon before going to Auschwitz in 1943. Later on, to cover the losses, recruits were drafted for service in the SS, and, in rare cases, dispatched for concentration camp service.

Only before the war it was entirely voluntary.

That's why every case has to be looked at individually. It's murky waters and noone should get a pass for being there. But at the same time, noone should be judged, simply based on being there.

I was unaware of that. Thanks.

(January 19, 2016 at 5:26 pm)CapnAwesome Wrote:

(January 19, 2016 at 3:48 pm)God of Mr. Hanky Wrote: Oh, for fuck's sake, the bedpan specialists were only grunts who did what they were told because they like to eat and sleep indoors! I believe that non-sequitor really shows your bias.

What you said is totally untrue historically. People didn't randomly end up working in the death camps, they wanted to be there. Most were members of the SS who joined the SS out of their own free will.

OK, I don't want to pretend to know more than I do, but something isn't adding up for your characterization of of those whose job title was "medical orderly". In our culture, this is not what ambitious people do, and the SS was Germany's most elite military organization during WWII. Therefore, I'm surprised if they could get any SS soldiers to empty bedpans, when they could get the local population, which was no less hostile toward Jewish people than they are today. But if you say the SS did even that low detail, I know you are qualified with your degree.

In fact the Germans employed kapos (other prisoners) to do the dirty work. 

https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jso...kapos.html

Quote:The German concentration camps depended on the cooperation of trustee inmates who supervised the prisoners. Known as Kapos, these trustees carried out the will of the Nazi camp commandants and guards, and were often as brutal as their SS counterparts.

(January 19, 2016 at 8:59 pm)God of Mr. Hanky Wrote:

(January 19, 2016 at 5:26 pm)CapnAwesome Wrote: What you said is totally untrue historically. People didn't randomly end up working in the death camps, they wanted to be there. Most were members of the SS who joined the SS out of their own free will.

OK, I don't want to pretend to know more than I do, but something isn't adding up for your characterization of of those whose job title was "medical orderly". In our culture, this is not what ambitious people do, and the SS was Germany's most elite military organization during WWII. Therefore, I'm surprised if they could get any SS soldiers to empty bedpans, when they could get the local population, which was no less hostile toward Jewish people than they are today. But if you say the SS did even that low detail, I know you are qualified with your degree.

No, war is not static, it is fluid and I am quite sure in every American war we have been in, there would have been times  where officers did grunt work of a private, even if only for a few hours or a day. It really does have to be a case by case issue, and there were even German civilians and soldiers who knew what was going on but didn't like it. Oscar Shindler acted like a Nazi supporter to save lives. There was even in Japan  this guy, who risked his neck to forge documents so Jews could flee Lithuania. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chiune_Sugihara

I only see this case as pointless because the person accused does not have the medical capacity to understand the charges. It would be like convicting a rock. It may be a political tactic, not a good reason.

They're hiding their true war criminal.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PJQVlVHsFF8