(February 3, 2016 at 7:56 pm)Sheed1980 Wrote:

(February 3, 2016 at 7:10 pm)Jörmungandr Wrote: a.  They didn't know then  as we do now, about the chromosomes; b. it's only half true; the drones only have 16 chromosomes, but females, workers and the queen of each colony, have a full 32.

(http://www.glenn-apiaries.com/principles.html)

So u agree there is truth in this then?

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(February 3, 2016 at 5:36 pm)Constable Dorfl Wrote: No you still haven't shown a single scientific prediction in the quran. What you have done is shown a number of futile, idiotic attempts by a number of clerics to retrofit science into their holy book after proper use of the scientific method discovered them. If what you show were scientific facts in the quran, you'd be able to show, 10th-13th century scholars praising allah for revealing those truths. The scholars are deafening in their silence.

Also Venus hasn't always orbited in the same way it does now, for example before and during the early solar system there was no Venus to do the orbiting. Also over long periods, the solar system is a chaotic system, meaning we cannot predict with accuracy wht it will be doing long into the future, nor what it did long ago.

Well is it possible that from the time of the 7th century when it was first listed in the Qur'an, that Venus was following the same pattern as it is today?

I see you fail to even acknowledge the large problem with your argument, and even your response to the smaller point is a massive row back from what you first said.

Face facts sheed, your religion is scientifically bankrupt and, at least subconsciously, you know it. Otherwise you'd be looking to defend against my points, not throw out irrelevancies.

(February 4, 2016 at 4:36 am)Sheed1980 Wrote:

(February 4, 2016 at 4:16 am)Irrational Wrote: Whoever told you that this is because the Qur'an copied the info about iron and its atomic number is obviously wrong, and you explained why satisfactorily. However, the Qur'an does not state that the atomic number of iron is 26. You and/or your fellow apologists are making stuff up to make it look like that's what the Qur'an says, using really silly numerological ways that are just based on made up nonsense. It looks to me like your fellow apologists just randomly chose a number for each letter to make it all work in their favor. That doesn't seem very honest.

This goes for the Venus and honeybee chromosome ones as well. So what if the Nahl sura is 16? It's just the number for the surah itself. It has nothing to do with chromosomes, lol. Otherwise, the Baqarah sura should have been number 60 instead of 2 ... and not all bees have a count of 16 chromosomes each.

The point is there are many messages of understanding to grasp aside from God's original message in the verses.

The problem is that you and your fellow apologists are the ones adding these "hidden meanings" to the Qur'anic text.

Quote:For instance the word moon is used throughout the entire Qur'an 27 times and the word for new moon is used only once. When added together they total 28 which is the exact number of phases of the moon as it orbits our planet.

Where did you get that there are exactly 28 moon phases? Do you check the sources for your "facts"?

Quote:And the word for land is used 13 times and the word for sea 32 times totalling 45.13/45=28.8888889% and 32/45=71.111111% THE EXACT percentages of water and land that covers our Earth.

And where did you get that these are the exact percentages? Again, make sure you're checking the sources for these claims before spouting them out as facts.

Quote:So my point being God uses these miracles to show only He can create such a book. What man will write a verse that says "In a land close by" or from a land facing east" and over a 23 year period that the Qur'an was revealed, keep count of how many times he used the word land then make sure it fits perfectly in the equation of exactly how much water and land cover the Earth, especially when the man Prophet Muhammad pbuh was illiterate and in the 7th century when no human knew how much water and land was on Earth. So God shows through these miracles that only He has knowledge of things during that time period which He has blessed us to use todays science and math and confirm it as the truth

Numerology is anything but math or science. Numerology is making up numbers and then trying to see if there are some interesting patterns in a large body of text using these made up numbers. And any large body of text can do that for you. Not just the Qur'an. So nothing impressive here at all. Plus, it doesn't help that you most likely got your scientific "facts" wrong anyway.

Why do we have to do maths to get meanings? couldn't of it just been written? seems to me like backing up bullshit with more bullshit.

(February 4, 2016 at 7:09 am)Irrational Wrote:

(February 4, 2016 at 4:36 am)Sheed1980 Wrote: The point is there are many messages of understanding to grasp aside from God's original message in the verses.

The problem is that you and your fellow apologists are the ones adding these "hidden meanings" to the Qur'anic text.

Quote:For instance the word moon is used throughout the entire Qur'an 27 times and the word for new moon is used only once. When added together they total 28 which is the exact number of phases of the moon as it orbits our planet.

Where did you get that there are exactly 28 moon phases? Do you check the sources for your "facts"?

Quote:And the word for land is used 13 times and the word for sea 32 times totalling 45.13/45=28.8888889% and 32/45=71.111111% THE EXACT percentages of water and land that covers our Earth.

And where did you get that these are the exact percentages? Again, make sure you're checking the sources for these claims before spouting them out as facts.

Quote:So my point being God uses these miracles to show only He can create such a book. What man will write a verse that says "In a land close by" or from a land facing east" and over a 23 year period that the Qur'an was revealed, keep count of how many times he used the word land then make sure it fits perfectly in the equation of exactly how much water and land cover the Earth, especially when the man Prophet Muhammad pbuh was illiterate and in the 7th century when no human knew how much water and land was on Earth. So God shows through these miracles that only He has knowledge of things during that time period which He has blessed us to use todays science and math and confirm it as the truth

Numerology is anything but math or science. Numerology is making up numbers and then trying to see if there are some interesting patterns in a large body of text using these made up numbers. And any large body of text can do that for you. Not just the Qur'an. So nothing impressive here at all. Plus, it doesn't help that you most likely got your scientific "facts" wrong anyway.

Numerology in antiquity's religions, both polytheism and monotheism was very popular. It was a literary device used to over conflate a story or idea. Most humans back then couldn't visualize big numbers, or even couldn't count at all. So when a holy person spoke of a story, they used big numbers to make the legend fantastic and big. 

This tactic is to varying degrees in all religions, not just the books of Abraham.

It isn't that different today, outside scientists most people cant comprehend what a trillion would look like. Laypeople merely see that as "really big".

Superstitions about numbers exist all over the world. In Japan, some buildings skip a floor number 4 in the elevator because that number is considered bad luck. Numbers like 7 and 40 are popular in multiple religious texts.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Numbers_in...se_culture

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_superstitions

http://www.indiadivine.org/content/topic...y-unlucky/

Religious numerology is simply another bullshit superstition on par with dietary superstitions.

(February 4, 2016 at 7:09 am)Irrational Wrote:

(February 4, 2016 at 4:36 am)Sheed1980 Wrote: The point is there are many messages of understanding to grasp aside from God's original message in the verses.

The problem is that you and your fellow apologists are the ones adding these "hidden meanings" to the Qur'anic text.

Quote:For instance the word moon is used throughout the entire Qur'an 27 times and the word for new moon is used only once. When added together they total 28 which is the exact number of phases of the moon as it orbits our planet.

Where did you get that there are exactly 28 moon phases? Do you check the sources for your "facts"?

Quote:And the word for land is used 13 times and the word for sea 32 times totalling 45.13/45=28.8888889% and 32/45=71.111111% THE EXACT percentages of water and land that covers our Earth.

And where did you get that these are the exact percentages? Again, make sure you're checking the sources for these claims before spouting them out as facts.

Quote:So my point being God uses these miracles to show only He can create such a book. What man will write a verse that says "In a land close by" or from a land facing east" and over a 23 year period that the Qur'an was revealed, keep count of how many times he used the word land then make sure it fits perfectly in the equation of exactly how much water and land cover the Earth, especially when the man Prophet Muhammad pbuh was illiterate and in the 7th century when no human knew how much water and land was on Earth. So God shows through these miracles that only He has knowledge of things during that time period which He has blessed us to use todays science and math and confirm it as the truth

Numerology is anything but math or science. Numerology is making up numbers and then trying to see if there are some interesting patterns in a large body of text using these made up numbers. And any large body of text can do that for you. Not just the Qur'an. So nothing impressive here at all. Plus, it doesn't help that you most likely got your scientific "facts" wrong anyway.

Here's ur proof for the moon phases. Go to this link and look at the diagram.http://www.yeatsvision.com/phases.html

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(February 4, 2016 at 7:09 am)Irrational Wrote:

(February 4, 2016 at 4:36 am)Sheed1980 Wrote: The point is there are many messages of understanding to grasp aside from God's original message in the verses.

The problem is that you and your fellow apologists are the ones adding these "hidden meanings" to the Qur'anic text.

Quote:For instance the word moon is used throughout the entire Qur'an 27 times and the word for new moon is used only once. When added together they total 28 which is the exact number of phases of the moon as it orbits our planet.

Where did you get that there are exactly 28 moon phases? Do you check the sources for your "facts"?

Quote:And the word for land is used 13 times and the word for sea 32 times totalling 45.13/45=28.8888889% and 32/45=71.111111% THE EXACT percentages of water and land that covers our Earth.

And where did you get that these are the exact percentages? Again, make sure you're checking the sources for these claims before spouting them out as facts.

Quote:So my point being God uses these miracles to show only He can create such a book. What man will write a verse that says "In a land close by" or from a land facing east" and over a 23 year period that the Qur'an was revealed, keep count of how many times he used the word land then make sure it fits perfectly in the equation of exactly how much water and land cover the Earth, especially when the man Prophet Muhammad pbuh was illiterate and in the 7th century when no human knew how much water and land was on Earth. So God shows through these miracles that only He has knowledge of things during that time period which He has blessed us to use todays science and math and confirm it as the truth

Numerology is anything but math or science. Numerology is making up numbers and then trying to see if there are some interesting patterns in a large body of text using these made up numbers. And any large body of text can do that for you. Not just the Qur'an. So nothing impressive here at all. Plus, it doesn't help that you most likely got your scientific "facts" wrong anyway.

http://www.universetoday.com/65588/what-...-is-water/
And this the link about the percentages of water and land.

DUDE don't care, first of and again, the Quran DOES NOT explain moon cycles or the size of the earth.

Tracking the stars and the moon took place in all of antiquity independently and calendars also existed long before Islam was concocted. Hindu and Zoroasters and even Mayans had them.

The Quran is not a science textbook, GET OVER IT! AND AGAIN, ALL RELIGIONS PULL THIS BULLSHIT TACTIC, NOT JUST ISLAM'S FANS.

Our species ability to make discoveries is because our species evolved with curiosity. Chinese people made discoveries, the ancient Egyptians invented things too. Their societies were much older than Islam.

NO HOLY BOOK of any religion, no holy writing of any religion constitutes the gods or superstitions those societies believe in to be true.

Scientific method is completely religion independent. You wanting Islam and Allah to be the one true religion doesn't make it true. Trying to shoehorn modern science backwards in time DOES NOT WORK. It does not work when Jews or Christians or Buddhists or Hindus try it either.

There is a 13 part Cosmos series hosted by Neil deGrasse Tyson an astrophysicist, that goes into detail about worldwide mutual independent discoveries and the gatekeeper fallacy. He goes back to ancient China much older, and the Arab world and the Aboriginals and the Greeks and Christians all the way to the modern era.

The gatekeepers "powers that be" would falsely attribute their discoveries to the divine. There is no magic power handed down to our species that allows us to test and tinker and invent. HUMANS do that, no magic involved.

COSMOS hosted by Neil deGrasse Tyson. 13 parts so one hour a day or one hour a week, but DO IT!

It is mainly about the history of the universe, but each week "hour" episode, he spends time pointing out the discoveries of MANY societies in our species history GLOBALLY.

His point is that religion isn't making the discoveries, HUMANS ARE.

You like most believers of all religions have a very narrow view of the world and all of you pick arbitrary starting points as to when "real science" started acting as if discovery and invention is a patent owned by one religion.

Here you can buy the series online here. Or at a Target or Walmart store or Best Buy, or E-Bay or Amazon.


https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=ch...me+odyssey

(February 4, 2016 at 6:20 pm)Brian37 Wrote: Here you can buy the series online here. Or at a Target or Walmart store or Best Buy, or E-Bay or Amazon.


https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=ch...me+odyssey

I'm guessing sheed comes from one of those countries where even thinking about possessing an item which disproves the quran gets one's head chopped off. It would explain why he is repeating the same old tired lies about quranic scientificity even after a good number of us have shown to him slowly, patiently and in simple language exaxtly why they are lies.