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February 4, 2016 at 12:25 pm (This post was last modified: February 4, 2016 at 12:38 pm by Mister Agenda.)
Catholic_Lady Wrote:
Mister Agenda Wrote:More like 'the cumulative weight of everything about this guy's claim that doesn't add up'.
What about his claim of being an atheist doesn't add up though?
We agree that atheists come in all types - good or bad, dumb or smart, tolerant or hostile. All that is required is that you don't believe in God.
Again, I'm not saying he definitely wasn't exaggerating about his atheism (or maybe even making it up entirely though I doubt that), but not on the grounds that he somehow didn't fit a particular atheist mold.
There are three types of people who say they uses to be atheists. People who used to be atheists, people who are lying about having been atheists, and people who are sincerely mistaken about having been atheists. You can make a similar statement about people who say they used to be theists.
If it's a trivial claim, there's nothing wrong with taking them at their word, and in fact, that's the polite and empathetic thing to do. Since Storm stands to gain some cred with Evangelicals, which helps him make a living, his claim is not trivial.
If more details are given, they should be consistent with the claim. If they are not, doubting the claim is reasonable. If someone said they used to be a theist, and in the same breath talked about what an asshole they used to be when they were a theist, it would at least give you a 'wait, whut?' moment, right? Not that theists can't be assholes, but mere theism has no link to assholery, so it's odd to talk about them like they're connected.
Now, imagine that you've encountered people who think they were theists because they were given a wrong definition of theism. Like they thought a theist is someone who doesn't drink alcohol. And this misconception is pretty widespread. Would you not wonder if someone who says they used to be a theist but everything they say as if it's connected to their theism has nothing to do with theism is one of those people who only think they used to be a theist because they don't understand what theism is?
I've been a person who doesn't understand what atheism is. Though my belief in God was reduced to keeping a small space in my brain open in case it turned out it was real, I was sure I wasn't like those close-minded atheists who think they can know for sure there's no God. I was already an atheist, but I didn't know it yet.
And atheists in America often have a lot in common that relates to our atheism besides our lack of belief in God. Most of us used to be Christians, because it's still unusual for an American to be raised non-theistically, though we can expect a lot more of those in Gen Z. We're an 'out group' and it doesn't take long for most of us to realize that separation of state and religion is a good idea, it's rare to meet an American atheist who isn't also a secularist.
None of this means Storm wasn't an atheist. But he's atypical enough to raise the question. And I think if he was an atheist claiming to have been a theist until an NDE convinced him that there is no afterlife, and now that he's not a theist he's not checking out upskirt shots on the internet anymore, a lot of theists would be wondering if he even knows what a theist is.
scoobysnack Wrote:Not saying I have all the answers, although you all think you do for some reason, which is odd but at the same time isn't. It's odd that someone would think they have it all figured out, but that can be attributed to the ego. It also isn't odd because people tend to believe in what they do based on perceived perception of authority figures whoever they personally believe that to be. Something I'm starting to learn while here on this forum is that atheists have their faith just as everyone does, and it's hard to change, just as it is for everyone. The difference would be they call it the rational understanding and belief in the system of collective knowledge based on science and government. There's also apparently a hierarchy and many variants of atheism. I would attribute it to the human experience we all share, since we all have an ego and opinion. Almost like I've bonded with you all, although you would think we are polar opposites.
Well soon I'll start talking again about the vibration that controls existence. Even science knows everything is vibration, from sound to light, to matter, and energy. I've been around, and have the patience.
I also need to add that we all have a confirmation bias, even me. And I'm not perfect, and shouldn't judge anyone. I'm here to learn and share.
You didn't read my post about prior knowledge, did you? We don't know the all answers. We just know what criteria should be met before an answer should be accepted as being justifiably considered true.
(January 28, 2016 at 8:32 pm)scoobysnack Wrote: Hey everyone. I'm new the forum and wanted to talk about near death experiences. Personally for me information from NDEs changed my life for the better. I think unlike religion, they offer better evidence of the spiritual realms and existence of God. Hoping we can have a civil discussion about it. I'm open to your views and hope we can reciprocate the respect for each other.
I would say the most amazing experiences that I have read was from Howard Storm. He was an atheist confident that nothing happens after life and his life was completely changed after his death experience. I met Howard and listened to his story, and want to share with you all here.
Please read through the short testimonial and let me know what you think so we can talk about it. There is a lot more infomation I can post, but this would be the place to start.
NDEs are bullshit claims. "Near" as a word gives it away. The window is what matters, and once you go beyond that window beyond cells working, you die and stay dead. If you come back, that means your body had just enough juice in it for a reversal to happen. Just like a seemingly dead battery when you get jumper cables and restart your car. Destroy the shape and structure of the battery beyond repair you wont be able to use it.
Funny how we never see a decapitated human without a head "come back".
If a doctor or nurse is claiming an "NDE" they are either lying to get attention, or are stupidly ignoring their own misdiagnosis.
The light you see and the "memories" or sights or sounds you see when you "fade out" are nothing more than your neurons crashing all at the same time and mixing with your visual/auditory/touch senses.
Nobody comes back once enough cell and tissue damage in the brain is caused. If you come back, that means you never went past that window and never were beyond repair.
(February 4, 2016 at 12:25 pm)Mister Agenda Wrote:
Catholic_Lady Wrote:
What about his claim of being an atheist doesn't add up though?
We agree that atheists come in all types - good or bad, dumb or smart, tolerant or hostile. All that is required is that you don't believe in God.
Again, I'm not saying he definitely wasn't exaggerating about his atheism (or maybe even making it up entirely though I doubt that), but not on the grounds that he somehow didn't fit a particular atheist mold.
There are three types of people who say they uses to be atheists. People who used to be atheists, people who are lying about having been atheists, and people who are sincerely mistaken about having been atheists. You can make a similar statement about people who say they used to be theists.
Quote: If it's a trivial claim, there's nothing wrong with taking them at their word, and in fact, that's the polite and empathetic thing to do. Since Storm stands to gain some cred with Evangelicals, which helps him make a living, his claim is not trivial.
If more details are given, they should be consistent with the claim. If they are not, doubting the claim is reasonable. If someone said they used to be a theist, and in the same breath talked about what an asshole they used to be when they were a theist, it would at least give you a 'wait, whut?' moment, right? Not that theists can't be assholes, but mere theism has no link to assholery, so it's odd to talk about them like they're connected.
Now, imagine that you've encountered people who think they were theists because they were given a wrong definition of theism. Like they thought a theist is someone who doesn't drink alcohol. And this misconception is pretty widespread. Would you not wonder if someone who says they used to be a theist but everything they say as if it's connected to their theism has nothing to do with theism is one of those people who only think they used to be a theist because they don't understand what theism is?
I've been a person who doesn't understand what atheism is. Though my belief in God was reduced to keeping a small space in my brain open in case it turned out it was real, I was sure I wasn't like those close-minded atheists who think they can know for sure there's no God. I was already an atheist, but I didn't know it yet.
And atheists in America often have a lot in common that relates to our atheism besides our lack of belief in God. Most of us used to be Christians, because it's still unusual for an American to be raised non-theistically, though we can expect a lot more of those in Gen Z. We're an 'out group' and it doesn't take long for most of us to realize that separation of state and religion is a good idea, it's rare to meet an American atheist who isn't also a secularist.
None of this means Storm wasn't an atheist. But he's atypical enough to raise the question. And I think if he was an atheist claiming to have been a theist until an NDE convinced him that there is no afterlife, and now that he's not a theist he's not checking out upskirt shots on the internet anymore, a lot of theists would be wondering if he even knows what a theist is.
Storm's account is silly enough to make anyone who isn't reading it as a "miracle account" to conclude it can't be real. And seriously, can you think of any better way for a preacher to get attention than to say, "I was an atheist, but then I had this Near Death Experience, I was given a revelation from GAWD!". All sorts of christards would immediately proclaim him the next Apostle Paul, beg him to tell them what gawd looked like and what gawd said, and throw money at him. It's a pretty smart con, when you think about it. He doesn't have to prove anything. The only better shtick would be to somehow actually do miracles . . . er, the paid shills in the audience pretending that they had incurable cancer and the guy with the fake back injury, I mean. Or have fake faith-healings run their course? NDE's are the new con?
"The family that prays together...is brainwashing their children."- Albert Einstein
February 4, 2016 at 3:25 pm (This post was last modified: February 4, 2016 at 3:26 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
New? Probably not, NDE's and OBE's in general are probably the -original- con. Those graves with red ochre all over, and useful tools buried alongside...that guy was packing for a trip, rgr?
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
February 4, 2016 at 9:59 pm (This post was last modified: February 4, 2016 at 10:13 pm by scoobysnack.)
(February 4, 2016 at 3:04 pm)drfuzzy Wrote:
(February 4, 2016 at 12:25 pm)Mister Agenda Wrote:
There are three types of people who say they uses to be atheists. People who used to be atheists, people who are lying about having been atheists, and people who are sincerely mistaken about having been atheists. You can make a similar statement about people who say they used to be theists.
If more details are given, they should be consistent with the claim. If they are not, doubting the claim is reasonable. If someone said they used to be a theist, and in the same breath talked about what an asshole they used to be when they were a theist, it would at least give you a 'wait, whut?' moment, right? Not that theists can't be assholes, but mere theism has no link to assholery, so it's odd to talk about them like they're connected.
Now, imagine that you've encountered people who think they were theists because they were given a wrong definition of theism. Like they thought a theist is someone who doesn't drink alcohol. And this misconception is pretty widespread. Would you not wonder if someone who says they used to be a theist but everything they say as if it's connected to their theism has nothing to do with theism is one of those people who only think they used to be a theist because they don't understand what theism is?
I've been a person who doesn't understand what atheism is. Though my belief in God was reduced to keeping a small space in my brain open in case it turned out it was real, I was sure I wasn't like those close-minded atheists who think they can know for sure there's no God. I was already an atheist, but I didn't know it yet.
And atheists in America often have a lot in common that relates to our atheism besides our lack of belief in God. Most of us used to be Christians, because it's still unusual for an American to be raised non-theistically, though we can expect a lot more of those in Gen Z. We're an 'out group' and it doesn't take long for most of us to realize that separation of state and religion is a good idea, it's rare to meet an American atheist who isn't also a secularist.
None of this means Storm wasn't an atheist. But he's atypical enough to raise the question. And I think if he was an atheist claiming to have been a theist until an NDE convinced him that there is no afterlife, and now that he's not a theist he's not checking out upskirt shots on the internet anymore, a lot of theists would be wondering if he even knows what a theist is.
Storm's account is silly enough to make anyone who isn't reading it as a "miracle account" to conclude it can't be real. And seriously, can you think of any better way for a preacher to get attention than to say, "I was an atheist, but then I had this Near Death Experience, I was given a revelation from GAWD!". All sorts of christards would immediately proclaim him the next Apostle Paul, beg him to tell them what gawd looked like and what gawd said, and throw money at him. It's a pretty smart con, when you think about it. He doesn't have to prove anything. The only better shtick would be to somehow actually do miracles . . . er, the paid shills in the audience pretending that they had incurable cancer and the guy with the fake back injury, I mean. Or have fake faith-healings run their course? NDE's are the new con?
Sure but there are thousands of examples, and are they are all liars, and delusional? Are you delusional? Are we all delusional to a point? Rational means accepting common beliefs and understandings, and even they are manipulated for an agenda, which must be accepted. I've done way too much research into propaganda techniques, NLP, predictive programming, psyops, etc, the list goes on to how important it is to control the mind. From the perspective of those that want to control us, what's the purpose of giving us the truth, when most people believe what they say? Most of these people are involved in the occult, and believe things we don't, many are luciferians, where basically they believe Lucifer. I'll go into luciferian on another post at least as to what it means to what they believe. For them it's better to keep people in the dark, and not give them spiritual awareness, because then you are not as easy to manipulate to a point. For those that believe the government is the highest power, they will believe what the government says, and there is not a reason to reveal truth.
Here's a good quote from Zbigniew Bezezinski, former national security advisor in the US and cofounder of the trilateral commision. Also his daughter is on MSNBC currently her name is Mika Brzezinski
“…in early times, it was easier to control a million people, literally it was easier to control a million people than physically to kill a million people. Today, it is infinitely easier to kill a million people than to controla million people. It is easier to kill than to control….”
Storm's account is silly enough to make anyone who isn't reading it as a "miracle account" to conclude it can't be real. And seriously, can you think of any better way for a preacher to get attention than to say, "I was an atheist, but then I had this Near Death Experience, I was given a revelation from GAWD!". All sorts of christards would immediately proclaim him the next Apostle Paul, beg him to tell them what gawd looked like and what gawd said, and throw money at him. It's a pretty smart con, when you think about it. He doesn't have to prove anything. The only better shtick would be to somehow actually do miracles . . . er, the paid shills in the audience pretending that they had incurable cancer and the guy with the fake back injury, I mean. Or have fake faith-healings run their course? NDE's are the new con?
Sure but there are thousands of examples, and are they are all liars, and delusional? Are you delusional? Are we all delusional to a point? Rational means accepting common beliefs and understandings, and even they are manipulated for an agenda, which must be accepted. I've done way too much research into propaganda techniques, NLP, predictive programming, psyops, etc, the list goes on to how important it is to control the mind. From the perspective of those that want to control us, what's the purpose of giving us the truth, when most people believe what they say? Most of these people are involved in the occult, and believe things we don't, many are luciferians, where basically they believe Lucifer. I'll go into luciferian on another post at least as to what it means to what they believe. For them it's better to keep people in the dark, and not give them spiritual awareness, because then you are not as easy to manipulate to a point. For those that believe the government is the highest power, they will believe what the government says, and there is not a reason to reveal truth.
Here's a good quote from Zbigniew Bezezinski, former national security advisor in the US and cofounder of the trilateral commision. Also his daughter is on MSNBC currently her name is Mika Brzezinski
“…in early times, it was easier to control a million people, literally it was easier to control a million people than physically to kill a million people. Today, it is infinitely easier to kill a million people than to controla million people. It is easier to kill than to control….”
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