(February 26, 2011 at 5:21 pm)fr0d0 Wrote: Rot. The bible also quotes God as saying "I am" ...or he 'just is'. God is throughout time, as well as outside time... its perfectly consistent.

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Problem with all of that.... God isn't a 'being', and is never proposed to be that in our (mainstream Christian') theology.

Frods it feels like you're in a few knots here. The 2 statements above clearly contradict each other. If god exists and descibes himself as "I", then he is at least a mind (and I would argue a physical brain as well) but also a being capable of thought and action.

This is the first time I have heard god described as not a being. Despite being inconsistent with everything I have ever understood about christianity and I admit it could be my error. What was Jesus who clearly was a being? What is god?

So I suppose you dismiss Albert Einstein and Stephen Hawking too then rev. Sounds like you just don't like to think much.

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(February 27, 2011 at 2:57 am)Captain Scarlet Wrote: Frods it feels like you're in a few knots here. The 2 statements above clearly contradict each other. If god exists and descibes himself as "I", then he is at least a mind (and I would argue a physical brain as well) but also a being capable of thought and action.

The statement only conflict if not describing the Christian God.

(February 27, 2011 at 2:57 am)Captain Scarlet Wrote: This is the first time I have heard god described as not a being. Despite being inconsistent with everything I have ever understood about christianity and I admit it could be my error. What was Jesus who clearly was a being? What is god?

Jesus was 100% God and 100% man. He is no longer.

DvF Wrote:My point is that the terms "before" and "after" are temporal terms. So it makes no sense to say that anything exists "before" or "after" time since that equates to saying "the time before time" or "the time after time". It equates to nonsense.

(February 26, 2011 at 5:21 pm)fr0d0 Wrote: For us as temporal beings, no.

No fr0d0, sorry. But this isn't just a matter of whether something is comprehensible for "us temporal beings" or not. This is also a matter of logic. And, sorry, but some things just don't make logical sense or are logically impossible.

"The time before time" is a contradiction and a confusion because we're still actually talking about time so it isn't atemporality we are actually addressing, hence "the time" before time.

(February 25, 2011 at 3:52 pm)DoubtVsFaith Wrote: We can't do anything if we are atemporal. To do something requires at least two moments, it requires time.

fr0d0 Wrote:Do something temporal, yes.

If you're addressing a sort of doing that doesn't involve more than one moment then in what sense is that 'doing' that you are addressing?

As I have already said, an atemporal being would be a being that can never exist. It makes no sense to say that it can ever exist when 'ever' is a temporal term. It makes no sense to say anything is "before" or "after" time when "before" and "after" are temporal terms. Atemporality makes no sense. It is nonsense.

(February 27, 2011 at 2:59 am)fr0d0 Wrote: Jesus was 100% God and 100% man. He is no longer.

I'm sure you are aware that that makes 200% arent ya.

Or are you arguing that god and man are the same thing?

But that cant be right because god exists as an 'atemporal entity' according to you. I am certainly temporal and am a very manly man.

Atemporality can't be comprehended by us mere mortals because it makes no sense. What's the point in believing in a concept that we can't even conceptualize properly because it's full of confusion and contradiction?

The logical contradiction is your own DvF. Not constrained by time does not mean "time before time" ...as you correctly disprove to yourself.

The glass of milk is 100% milk and 100% liquid - does that make 200% too DBP?

I used "the time before time" as an example, you responded to that and seemed to disagree. Then I explained further.

I was talking about how it makes no sense to talk of "before" or "after" time since then we're still talking time. Then we're still talking temporality, we're not actually addressing atemporality.

(February 26, 2011 at 5:21 pm)fr0d0 Wrote: Rot. The bible also quotes God as saying "I am" ...or he 'just is'. God is throughout time, as well as outside time... its perfectly consistent.
Problem with all of that.... God isn't a 'being', and is never proposed to be that in our (mainstream Christian') theology.

Yeah..I can see where it is *perfectly* consistent that someone can say "I am" yet is not a being. That he is throughout time as well as outside of time.

Is he also dry water? Is he a non blowing wind? Is he a black white? How about a left right? Does he live in a timeless time on a landless land?

(February 27, 2011 at 2:11 pm)fr0d0 Wrote: The glass of milk is 100% milk and 100% liquid - does that make 200% too DBP?

Thats a really poor analogy as one is a condition of matter the other a type of liquid. You are asserting quite a different thing.

It is a stupendous logical contradiction to assert that Jesus was 100% human and 100% a god. Just one obvious example. A man is mortal, a god is supposed to be immortal. Jesus cannot have been an immortal, mortal; clearly milk can be a liquid and milk at the same time.

Note here you cannot resort to the....ah but Jesus was 100% in his man like nature and 100% in his god like nature, without explaining what that means. If it boils down to a human shell and an immaterial god like soul, then clearly not only have you the burden of proof as to whether souls exist but even if you can demonstrate that, Jesus was obviosuly not 100% man; nor 100% god. You need to expalin exactly what the god you believe in is, apprently it is not a being. But until then the arguments are without merit.

Equally Scarlet, you cannot say my point is illogical until you understand it. And as we're talking about something in the public domain: Christianity, you have every possibility to go check the facts for yourself.

I'm not asserting a different thing at all. That's my point. Milk is to liquid is as God is to man. We're talking differing descriptors. God isn't only physical and Jesus only God like. Jesus is dead and Jesus is alive. Jesus the man died, and Jesus who is God is alive forever.

God's nature and man's nature are like the milk and liquid. Milk can be all milk and all liquid at the same time.