(February 25, 2016 at 6:46 am)Fake Messiah Wrote: Try this experiment: Watch any of the popular televangelists with the sound turned off. Pay particular attention to any close up-shots. Examine the preachers’ smile, their jaw tension, neck or forehead veins; watch their hand gestures – how many aggressive, forward-pushing, knife or hatchet-type gestures do you see? Now ask: If you saw this person in a coffee shop talking like this, how would you classify his or her behavior and emotions?

Here's how you can test a true prophet:

1)  Get a quarter, go into a secluded place, and toss the coin 50 times; record each trial, "heads" or "tails", numbered from 1 to 50.

2)  Seal your results in an envelope.

3)  Ask your would-be prophet to write the exact sequences of tosses down on a piece of paper, and better yet, have them predict such an outcome in advance!

4)  Do the compare.

Anything less is pure garbage.

(February 25, 2016 at 6:46 am)Fake Messiah Wrote: Try this experiment: Watch any of the popular televangelists with the sound turned off. Pay particular attention to any close up-shots. Examine the preachers’ smile, their jaw tension, neck or forehead veins; watch their hand gestures – how many aggressive, forward-pushing, knife or hatchet-type gestures do you see? Now ask: If you saw this person in a coffee shop talking like this, how would you classify his or her behavior and emotions?

Actually, most of the popular televangelists now are those who preach prosperity gospel.  Creflo Dollar, Joel Osteen, etc.  Their mannerisms are much more like a used car salesman than anything else - dead behind the eyes fake smiles, flamboyant energetic gestures, lots of welcoming body language as opposed to threatening body language.  And it makes sense.  They're literally trying to not only sell their faith, but books, DVDs, pay-per-minute phone prayers, etc.

But, your larger point remains.  Everything these people do is calculated.  How it manifests differs from church to church.  Your "gays are to be blamed for 9/11" types definitely use more aggressive gestures, while your "in Jesus' name, amen... don't forget to buy a book or DVD on your way out" types try to foster a more welcoming, friendly, and happy mood.  Catholic priests try to foster an air of authority between their dress, their surroundings (Catholics sure love their vaulted ceilings and gargantuan crucifixes), and their generalized solemn mannerisms.

It's really kind of interesting to watch once you're out of religion because it's so obvious, especially if you've learned anything about propaganda and/or persuasion.  P.T. Barnum had nothing on priests and preachers.

It is so obvious. It's like watching people who are under a spell. I suppose in a way, they are.

It's baffled me my whole life. Coming to this forum has helped me understand the psychology behind it all, but even when I can have good explanations it still makes me shake my head in amazement.

(February 25, 2016 at 2:13 pm)KevinM1 Wrote: Actually, most of the popular televangelists now are those who preach prosperity gospel.  Creflo Dollar, Joel Osteen, etc.  Their mannerisms are much more like a used car salesman than anything else - dead behind the eyes fake smiles, flamboyant energetic gestures, lots of welcoming body language as opposed to threatening body language.  And it makes sense.  They're literally trying to not only sell their faith, but books, DVDs, pay-per-minute phone prayers, etc.

Perhaps, but take a look at this sermon by some asshole Pastor Steven Anderson, where he defends slavery because the Bible condones it.

You can skip to 8m 40s: "Are there situations where god indicated for people to beat their servants? Absolutely! But you know that it's all right! I agree with all of it. Because the Bible is God's word."
https://youtu.be/EwMtryNZKKY

Which explains why this preacher is beating this woman under the crucifix:

That first video is Drich in a nutshell. "I believe what the bible says, period. My brain need not tax itself with any thoughts that my god may, in fact, be an asshole not worth worshiping." The best part is when the preacher suggests responding to an atheist with another bible quote, because nothing is as convincing to unbelievers as another quote from a tome we see as holding very little value.

That second video is incredibly uncomfortable to watch. What nationality are they? Sounds almost Russian or something.

I just got into a debate with my brother. He told me once again about prophecies and I told him about the failed prophecy of damascus. Isaiah 17:1
He tried to interpret it in a way like saying Damascus wasn't to be its former glory but Damascus is more successful today, number one. Number 2, it says Damascus will be in a heap of ruins. These debates have done nothing but annoy me. They always say "He just doesn't understand" or "He won't accept truth" and it's really hard disregarding that when it comes from my parents.

Oh well, appointment is March 1st, if they don't bring me to it, I will get my brother drew to take me, my mom already said she doesn't want me to take Prozac (A verified, tested medicine) and instead she wants me to "get right with god." (an unproven, alternative medicine similar to homeopathy imo)

I'm ready to face that I'm probably fucked until i'm 18, with my parents denying me any treatment and me just getting more and more screwed up.
I have depression, OCD, and even a dependence on porn. (kinda personal, wanted to bring it out because it also does affect me pretty bad.)

Oh man I'm really sorry.

It sounds like your brother just can't accept you disagreeing with him. Many of the theists are like that on this board. I don't think debating him is ever going to get anywhere, I'd just not bother if I was you. You don't need to justify yourself to him. Even if the prophecies were "true", it doesn't prove the rest of the book is true, nor does it mean you'd have to join the religion even if it was.

That's thoroughly disgusting about your parents. I got put on prozac the first time I had serious depression, and it saved my life. I would never have got through without it. It may take a few attempts to find the anti depressant that works for you, there are several different families. I would highly advise trying it. The way I look at it, it helps make you strong enough to help yourself. It got my head above water.

Thanks for sharing about the porn. We're all pretty open here, feel free to talk about it. I regularly use porn.

(February 27, 2016 at 3:53 pm)robvalue Wrote: Oh man I'm really sorry.

It sounds like your brother just can't accept you disagreeing with him. Many of the theists are like that on this board. I don't think debating him is ever going to get anywhere, I'd just not bother if I was you. You don't need to justify yourself to him. Even if the prophecies were "true", it doesn't prove the rest of the book is true, nor does it mean you'd have to join the religion even if it was.

That's thoroughly disgusting about your parents. I got put on prozac the first time I had serious depression, and it saved my life. I would never have got through without it. It may take a few attempts to find the anti depressant that works for you, there are several different families. I would highly advise trying it. The way I look at it, it helps make you strong enough to help yourself. It got my head above water.

Thanks for sharing about the porn. We're all pretty open here, feel free to talk about it. I regularly use porn.

Thanks for the concern.

It seems so. After I told him, it was over and over again debating. I'd say I've won a majority of the debates though.

I know, I am giving her the benefit of the doubt again and saying maybe its the high suicide rate with the drug.

Yea, Its not a regular thing anymore though, I used to be able to enjoy it, but now almost everything but porn is kinda dull, not watching is difficult. I attribute this reliance of a lack of stimulation in my environment (besides video games, which is starting to get dull because I play them almost every day just to have something to do, its the same thing over and over again.)

I can understand that. At the pits of my depression, everything was just dulled out, and I was desperately trying to find anything that would make me feel something.

As for suicide, I can be pretty sure I would have killed myself without anti depressants. It is sweet you're automatically trying to think of your mum in the best light, it's because you're a nice person. Sadly, she does not have your best interests at heart. She is putting her religion before your wellbeing, and that's totally unacceptable.

Also... people on Prozac are generally very highly depressed in the first place, so high suicide rates aren't that surprising considering the target group. I'm not saying they are risk free, they are powerful drugs which shouldn't be taken lightly. A particular one may actually make you feel worse, or really strange. That has happened to me. The important thing is to recognise it and come off it, and try another one. If you persist with one that is causing you to feel worse, then that will definitely be dangerous. Of course, discuss all this with your therapist/doctor and don't take my word for anything. I'm just giving you the benefit of my experience.

First time round Prozac helped me right away. With my second bout of depression, many years later, Prozac had a very strange effect on me and did make me worse. I was in a terrible hysterical state. But I came off it, and I went back to "normal". No harm had been done. With the help of the doctor I tried several more types, which generally had no effect, before finding the one which helped me this time. I'm still on it, and I firmly believe I would have killed myself had I not been put on it.

Fuck man, i thought my OCD was getting better. I am spiraling. I am going to need to go to that appointment. If we go to Church today thats gonna make it 2000x worse.

My old medicine isnt working. I cant get anything new until monday if my mom even fucking takes me to that appointment. I am not gonna get out of church because my parents will stop at nothing to convert me.