In your rush to the typical "prove it", you are missing the point. It is possible to logically conclude that event x was likely not caused by natural events (and conversely). The only way around this conclusion is to assign a zero probability that supernatural causes exist. This is a claim to knowledge and therefore would require justification and NOT simply shifting the burden of proof to me.
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You Can't Disprove a Miracle
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 (March 14, 2016 at 9:12 am)SteveII Wrote: In your rush to the typical "prove it", you are missing the point. It is possible to logically conclude that event x was likely not caused by natural events (and conversely). The only way around this conclusion is to assign a zero probability that supernatural causes exist. This is a claim to knowledge and therefore would require justification and NOT simply shifting the burden of proof to me. You can have any theory you want but if you can't differentiate your theory from a crackpot theory, then you HAVE a crackpot theory.  (March 14, 2016 at 8:48 am)SteveII Wrote:(March 12, 2016 at 1:43 pm)Stimbo Wrote: And until supernatural agency is shown to exist and to operate in the ways ascribed to it, those variables actually remain at zero. Actually it's astonishingly linear. We start with the system as is, that we can investigate. Only once we have applied the Holmesian Maxim and eliminated the impossible can we even begin to entertain ideas of supernatural agency. Now its up to you as the proponent of such agency to establish and support your case. I'm giving you the floor and an open mic. What have you got for us?
At the age of five, Skagra decided emphatically that God did not exist. This revelation tends to make most people in the universe who have it react in one of two ways - with relief or with despair. Only Skagra responded to it by thinking, 'Wait a second. That means there's a situation vacant.'
I went through all this recently. I'll post the video again.
It's an equivocation between our scientific theories which model the "laws of nature" and the actual "laws of nature". Equivocations are bad. Angry Atheist to the rescue: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5u5-Bg2ENQ Feel free to send me a private message.
Please visit my website here! It's got lots of information about atheism/theism and support for new atheists. Index of useful threads and discussions Index of my best videos Quickstart guide to the forum  (March 14, 2016 at 10:10 am)Stimbo Wrote:(March 14, 2016 at 8:48 am)SteveII Wrote: That would be circular logic. We are looking for evidence of supernatural agency. You are saying we cannot ascribe even a probability until what?...we have evidence that supernatural agency exists? I agree. If we can find a natural cause for an event, that should be our default position. However, as the probability of natural causes goes down, you still have the evidence of the event which necessarily increases the probability of the event having a supernatural cause.  (March 12, 2016 at 6:56 am)ignoramus Wrote: You're welcome Drich.Teacher: So y = r cubed over 3. And if you determine the rate of change in this curve correctly, I think you'll be pleasantly surprised. Teacher: Don't you get it, Bart? Derivative dy = 3 r squared dr over 3, or r squared dr, or r dr r. dy/dr = r2 into dy = rdrr... (March 14, 2016 at 11:40 am)robvalue Wrote: I went through all this recently. I'll post the video again. I agree, we should not rule out any event a priori because our "laws of nature" are more descriptive than prescriptive. However, that does not rule out supernatural causes. Science cannot tell us if supernatural causes exist or not.
Neither can you, apparently.
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