(April 5, 2016 at 12:56 pm)Minimalist Wrote: Either words have meaning or they don't.

Quote: Full Definition of faith
plural faiths play \ˈfāths, sometimes ˈfāthz\

1. 1 a :  allegiance to duty or a person :  loyalty b (1) :  fidelity to one's promises (2) :  sincerity of intentions
   
2. 2 a (1) :  belief and trust in and loyalty to God (2) :  belief in the traditional doctrines of a religion b (1) :  firm belief in something for which there is no proof (2) :  complete trust
   
3. 3 :  something that is believed especially with strong conviction; especially :  a system of religious beliefs <the Protestant [i]faith>[/i]
   

Did you read the whole thing?  I would also say, that without proof does apply to each of my statements above, however without reason does not. 

I also apologize, I screwed up in answering your question.  You had stated "no evidence" and I asked about the evidence.   The answer is no.... however I think that you are also redefining evidence.  If the evidence is the word of one person... probably not.

(April 5, 2016 at 1:00 pm)LadyForCamus Wrote:

(April 5, 2016 at 12:52 pm)RoadRunner79 Wrote: The way, that you redefine faith, perhaps not.  But that does not describe my faith in God either.  

As to your question; what type of evidence?

No, I am asking you what you would need in order to believe me if I told you I had a dinosaur living in my basement.

I want to know how big your basement is, and how big the dinosaur is.

(April 5, 2016 at 1:02 pm)RoadRunner79 Wrote:

(April 5, 2016 at 12:56 pm)Minimalist Wrote: Either words have meaning or they don't.

Did you read the whole thing?  I would also say, that without proof does apply to each of my statements above, however without reason does not. 

I also apologize, I screwed up in answering your question.  You had stated "no evidence" and I asked about the evidence.   The answer is no.... however I think that you are also redefining evidence.  If the evidence is the word of one person... probably not.

Are you responding to me, or min here? So, it's a numbers issue? How many people would have to corroborate my claim about the two headed dinosaur in order for you to believe it without any other evidence?

Just to clarify...when I say evidence I mean it in a scientific sense; demonstrable, repeatable, testable...ect, and personal testimony falls pretty low on the ladder there.

(April 5, 2016 at 12:51 pm)robvalue Wrote: To me, "faith" in the religious sense seems to be about continuing to believe something in spite of there being no credible evidence, whether you knew this all along or found out at some point and continued believing. It would be the equivalent of still believing in Santa Claus, despite it being pointed out to you that it's clearly not real, as there's no evidence and it's a ludicrous idea. I know theists hate that comparisons but too bad. It's valid. Santa is in fact a far more believable proposition.

If there was credible, demonstrable evidence of any of it, we wouldn't be having any of these discussions. And the constant attempts to equivocate with reasonable, evidence-based probabilistic expectations is a dead giveaway.

One minute there's evidence apparently coming out of their arses, the next God can't show himself because of interfering with free will or something.

By your same arguments, if there was credible, demostratable evidence of evolution , then we would not be having discussions on that either then... correct?  What I notice, is that the standards change, when talking about God.  As discussed before; I think this is unreasonable. 

What Counts as Evidence?
What I find is that normally when some ask for evidence, is that they mean scientific repeatable evidence; which is a category mistake.

(April 5, 2016 at 1:03 pm)robvalue Wrote:

(April 5, 2016 at 1:00 pm)LadyForCamus Wrote: No, I am asking you what you would need in order to believe me if I told you I had a dinosaur living in my basement.

I want to know how big your basement is, and how big the dinosaur is.

Great questions, Rob! Well...the dinosaur is the size of a T. rex, and my basement is the size of a regular basement...but he is non-corporeal, so he can condense his essence to fit any open space!

RoadRunner79 Wrote:

LadyForCamus Wrote:Faith is believing without evidence.  Believing without rational justification.  What else in your day to day life do you believe without evidence?  What else in the world besides the existence of Yahweh do you take on blind faith?  My two headed dinosaur?  I bet not.

I would agree with the first statement to an extent, but not with the second as a definition of faith.

I believe that the bank has my money, when they say they do.  
I believe that science is a good method to study physical reality and that it will continue to be so.
I believe that my parents and family, will be there for me if I need.

I did notice, that you inserted the word "blind" prior to faith now....

Don't you believe those things based on past performance? That's evidence. And if your money wasn't there when it was supposed to be enough times, you would change your mind in light of that new evidence. Faith in the sense of 'earned trust' applies, but not faith in the religious sense. We should probably use the word 'trust' instead of 'faith' for that kind of faith (belief your family will be there for you kind of faith) in this conversation to avoid confusion and unintentional equivocation.

(April 5, 2016 at 1:11 pm)RoadRunner79 Wrote:

(April 5, 2016 at 12:51 pm)robvalue Wrote: To me, "faith" in the religious sense seems to be about continuing to believe something in spite of there being no credible evidence, whether you knew this all along or found out at some point and continued believing. It would be the equivalent of still believing in Santa Claus, despite it being pointed out to you that it's clearly not real, as there's no evidence and it's a ludicrous idea. I know theists hate that comparisons but too bad. It's valid. Santa is in fact a far more believable proposition.

If there was credible, demonstrable evidence of any of it, we wouldn't be having any of these discussions. And the constant attempts to equivocate with reasonable, evidence-based probabilistic expectations is a dead giveaway.

One minute there's evidence apparently coming out of their arses, the next God can't show himself because of interfering with free will or something.

By your same arguments, if there was credible, demostratable evidence of evolution , then we would not be having discussions on that either then... correct?  What I notice, is that the standards change, when talking about God.  As discussed before; I think this is unreasonable. 

What Counts as Evidence?
What I find is that normally when some ask for evidence, is that they mean scientific repeatable evidence; which is a category mistake.

Oh, please, for the love of god not the evolution thing again...I just can't...it physically hurts after a while.

(April 5, 2016 at 1:12 pm)Mister Agenda Wrote:

RoadRunner79 Wrote:I would agree with the first statement to an extent, but not with the second as a definition of faith.

I believe that the bank has my money, when they say they do.  
I believe that science is a good method to study physical reality and that it will continue to be so.
I believe that my parents and family, will be there for me if I need.

I did notice, that you inserted the word "blind" prior to faith now....

Don't you believe those things based on past performance? That's evidence. And if your money wasn't there when it was supposed to be enough times, you would change your mind in light of that new evidence. Faith in the sense of 'earned trust' applies, but not faith in the religious sense. We should probably use the word 'trust' instead of 'faith' for that kind of faith (belief your family will be there for you kind of faith) in this conversation to avoid confusion and unintentional equivocation.

Yes, I agree. I would say earned trust applies to all of those real world scenarios. You have demonstrable evidence in these cases as well.

Yeah really, I'm not even going to reply to this stuff about evolution.

It's kind of a prerequisite that the people involved understand what it is they are even discussing. If they don't, their opinion isn't of much importance. I've never heard a single person who can demonstrate they understand what evolution is, and then go on to say they think it doesn't happen. So among those informed enough to hold a sensible opinion, there is virtually no disagreement.

Standard basement.

Compsognathus (/kɒmpˈsɒɡnəθəs/;[1] Greek kompsos/κομψός; "elegant", "refined" or "dainty", and gnathos/γνάθος; "jaw")[2] is a genus of small, bipedal, carnivorous theropod dinosaurs. Members of its single species Compsognathus longipes could grow to the size of a turkey.