---

(March 22, 2011 at 3:50 pm)QuestingHound08 Wrote: Pornography, etymology aside (for the sake of looking at how it's actually used, not just the pedigree of the word) is stupid.

My toilet is also stupid, but i would rather not do without it. My bed is also stupid, but I make love upon it, and enjoy its being there for me with its loving embrace.

Quote:What it does is take people and imagine what it would be like if they were only sex toys.

You mean people aren't sex toys? Have I been misusing people for the last five years?!

Quote:I'm fine with art, and even with art that distorts certain images and ideas in order to emphasize something or some elements of certain things that we are neglecting or underplaying--I could imagine someone using the example of social repression as a reason for creating pornography, as a sort of equal and opposite reaction--but to deliberately manipulate one's own or other people's emotions in what is already arguably an imbalanced area of self-control, and cultivate the habit of looking at people as objects of selfish gratification instead of others to be respected and loved makes no sense for anyone trying to live constructively.

I'm fine with art too, especially erotic art. And art of fantasy landscapes ^_^

I argue that sex is not an imbalanced area of self-control moreso than any other. Hungry? Thirsty? You want it? Ha! ^_^

Please note that it is not people we are looking at in porn: it is humans (or males/females, or whatever your fetish). Often naked or erotically clothed. Humans are bags of flesh. They are objects, tools to be used and abused, useful, and often contain people within the human platform. We are not downplaying people to display humans in porn. We are downplaying humanity as being what it is: a tool for people to use. People enjoy using humans for sex.

Quote:I think Pornography is one of the few things that can be labeled as evil, whatever your religious or non-religious background--it can be labeled because it is the practice of improperly labeling--it can be called evil (if there is such a thing as evil) because at best it is a perversion of what is natural to what is purely a selfish whim.

If there is such a thing as 'evil', it is probably using resources poorly in a way deemed negative to others. Holocaust? Evil. Not because of killing people... but because of wasting so many resources to do so creatively and expensively. Stalin? Evil. Not because he killed a bunch of people... but because he killed many of them needlessly (and often enough sent the intellectual people to the Gulag where they coudln't put science to effective use). Me? Not evil. Because i say I am so that you will trust me so that I can be evil if I want to be

What is 'natural' is to have sex when one whims. Restraint is a social construct based partially on respect and concern of what the rest of society would do. Do you naturally eat and sleep at a specific time, in three meals and always at night? Absolutely not. It is natural to do what one feels they should do. Natural is *not* a good term on which to base your society/diet/whatever... because nature is not the best guide for which we should do all things. Quite the opposite in many cases, infact.

Quote:I'm not engaging in slurs or religious labeling, I'm simply stating something as secular as a golden-rule. I can tolerate a lot of things, but I'm sure that nobody can reasonably think through pornography (if they reach the same conclusion as me, that it's all self-serving twisting of images, leading to a debased mentality toward others, and sometimes a kind of addiction to one's own sexual desires) and still say that there is anything about that worth commending.

No... much better to restrain your men from having sex at all and losing control to alter children. It is *not* healthy to not eat. It is *not* healthy to not sleep. And it is *not* healthy to be sexually inactive (especially at the most sexually active portion of your life). Pornography leads to as much a 'debased' mentality towards others as eating does your food, and sleeping does your responsibilities. That is to say: not to an extent that can even be calculated in most cases, with few exceptions.

Quote:Pornography is kind of a last stop if you want to retain any kind of meaning or morality about your life. Pornography suggests a kind of false life, a lie, which you can distort to suit your own desires. That may not seem to bother anybody else, but I sure as heck wouldn't recommend it for building up any kind of a society or healthy worldview for anyone.

Pornography suggests this: you find _____ attractive and enjoy masturbating to it. If you want a real 'distortion' of being able to do whatever you want: try being rich. I can do just about whatever I want (within reason of my means and what is possible). I feel very guilty when I hang out with poor people and they have trouble coming up with 20-30 USD while I have just bought something worth ten times so much without concern. That's as "distorting" as it really gets... pornography distorts only your sexual taste (that is to say: expands it)

Quote:I think I've made my reasons clear why I don't support it--what's to support? and why I would condemn it.

How about supporting a multi-billion dollar industry that many people enjoy? People enjoying themselves and spending money to do it: what more could you want?

Quote:Most people might shrink that "condemning" an idea--but using/abusing other people and their nature for selfish pleasure is about as close to an equation with evil as anyone will be able to agree on, ever. I don't think people need to believe in God firmly to have a pretty strong sense that there is such a thing as evil. There is a price that is too high to justify certain actions, even private ones--I think pornography is one of those unjustifiable actions.

I don't agree on your understanding of evil

I don't have so much a strong sense of what is evil as I do of what is inefficient/ineffective. If a mighty alien race uses bioweapons on my planets, I am every time enraged. That's the extent of it. I am irritated if they bomb me, but using bioweapons on my planets is where I draw the line. That's a horrible thing to do and it shows they have zero respect for anything less than their own goals. They won't respect my missile bases or star fleet enough to create a starship design to battle them: they attack my fucking civilians directly, bypassing all of my defenses. And that enrages the hell out of me. I have been known to commit genocides because of having bio weapons used on me. That's my sense of evil: not respecting me while I am a serious power in space/Earth enough to do battle with my mighty armies and defenses... instead sinking so low as to ignore my military expenditures and their own future occupation of the territory they have "eradicated" simply to kill people. Barbarism without concern for the future is evil. Bombing me means they intend to set up on a planet I have already terraformed for them, so I understand this and it isn't evil (enjoy cleaning up after the silicoid, suckers).

Quote:For others (by the way, I'm not equating porn with Nazi's--just letting people know about a GRREAT mental thriller--watch the movie "After The Truth" about the Nazis. Pretty fascinating, award-winning, and great acting & directing about a Nazi who tries to argue in a modern tribunal that what he did was praise-worthy or at least not-blameable. And Succeeds. Kind of scary. Makes you ask yourself where you draw the line, and how, and why. Makes you wonder whether convenient gratification or self-preservation at a given moment is worth what it makes you give up--a life of integrity and real meaning you can believe in (even if you don't believe in God).

Much of what the Nazis did *is* praiseworthy: they almost took over the world. How can they have a higher praise than being effective, efficient, and advanced enough that they can crush most of the world? Even though I am against them, I can't help but respect them for many things. Unfortunately for them (fortunately for everyone else), they had some moron named "Hitler" in power and screwing them up.

---