(April 18, 2016 at 1:05 pm)abaris Wrote:

(April 18, 2016 at 1:01 pm)Cherubim Wrote: 1. Not a single person on earth can refute the resurrection of Jesus Christ. In fact, all evidence points to it.

Interesting, which evidence? Scientific if you please.

Also, my favorite subject. Do you believe in the trinity? If so, Jesus was god. So, even if I were to give you the resurrection, what is go known for? Is it something special to not being able to die?


Only going by your own definitions and mental acrobatics here.

I'm not going into the other things you mentioned since we were over them ad nauseum with every new missionary cropping up here. It's not too much to ask to use the search function, is it?

YouTube: Debate: Did Jesus Rise from the Dead? (David Wood vs. John Loftus)

Yes I believe in the trinity. Yes, Jesus is God.

I don't understand your question at all.

The wholly babble, not even the "King James Version", (a version commissioned by a homosexual king who was head of the Church of England; cobbled together by 8 members of the Church of England from previous translations, not a single one an original text; and phrased to win the approval of Parliament) qualifies as proof of god, or of the existence of Jesus, or Creation, or the Flood, or of anything other than it's a collection of 66 old books of fairy tales.  66 books of KJV version fairy tales that have over 600 easily-proven internal contradictions.  

If you want to prove the gawd exists here, it's easy: 


God is going to have to show up and prove he exists.  Give us something concrete, verifiable and measurable, instead of hiding for over 2000 years. Surely the creator of billions upon billions of galaxies does not need you to speak for him.

(April 18, 2016 at 1:08 pm)vorlon13 Wrote: Can and will you demonstrate a sign of your belief for us, like drinking Drano Liquid, or molten boron, or concentrated sulfuric acid, and showing us it doesn't hurt you ??


Thomas wanted to feel the nail holes, we want something of similar gravitas, so that we might ourselves know your truth.

holytext (DOT) org/proof-god-inspired-the-bible

"Matter does not produce non-matter" - so how did your god manage it? Give me something observable and testable.

(April 18, 2016 at 1:08 pm)Cherubim Wrote: Yes I believe in the trinity. Yes, Jesus is God.

I don't understand your question at all.

Not understanding is your problem, not mine.

Jesus is god, god is eternal, omnipotent, omnisicent and by definition immortal.

So, tell me, why Jesus's sacrifice, knowing he's god, carries any weight? Jesus being god can't die. So where's the sacrifice? A comprehensive response, if you please. For a sin, god/Jesus created in the first place. And I don't even bother you with who Jesus was talking to when asking god to take that cup away from him.

(April 18, 2016 at 1:10 pm)drfuzzy Wrote: The wholly babble, not even the "King James Version", (a version commissioned by a homosexual king who was head of the Church of England; cobbled together by 8 members of the Church of England from previous translations, not a single one an original text; and phrased to win the approval of Parliament) qualifies as proof of god, or of the existence of Jesus, or Creation, or the Flood, or of anything other than it's a collection of 66 old books of fairy tales.  66 books of KJV version fairy tales that have over 600 easily-proven internal contradictions.  

There is not a single contradiction in the KJ Bible. Not one.

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(April 18, 2016 at 1:12 pm)Stimbo Wrote: "Matter does not produce non-matter" - so how did your god manage it? Give me something observable and testable.

God is spirit. Not matter.

God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth. - John 4:24

(April 18, 2016 at 1:13 pm)abaris Wrote:

(April 18, 2016 at 1:08 pm)Cherubim Wrote: Yes I believe in the trinity. Yes, Jesus is God.

I don't understand your question at all.

Not understanding is your problem, not mine.

Jesus is god, god is eternal, omnipotent, omnisicent and by definition immortal.

So, tell me, why Jesus's sacrifice, knowing he's god, carries any weight? Jesus being god can't die. So where's the sacrifice? A comprehensive response, if you please. For a sin, god/Jesus created in the first place. And I don't even bother you with who Jesus was talking to when asking god to take that cup away from him.

Understanding the Nature of God

To understand why hell is eternal we have to understand God. Once we know the nature of God, it will become obvious to anyone who let’s his lenses be on the shelf that hell is eternal and that it is the only logical explanation. God has a personality, a nature, we not only see this throughout scripture but we see this in ourselves as well, we were created in His image after all. God is eternal & infinite. The difference between eternal and infinite is pretty big when you think about it, but it also depends on how the words are used. For example, I have eternal life, but I am not infinite. God has eternal life and is infinite.

Because God is infinite, any attribute to God has to be infinite. God says He is love, justice, perfection, good, and so on. All of these attributes have to then be infinite, there is no other possibility, if they were not then He would not be God. We also know that there are certain things God cannot do, like lie for example or go back on His Word or sin in any way, shape or form. This is just who He is, it is as unnatural and impossible for God to sin as it is for you to become God. So why is hell eternal torment?

The sin of mankind & why hell is eternal torment

We read that God is both infinitely just as in justice and infinite love, as in loving. Man sinned against God when he ate from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, this means they sinned against an infinite law giver, thus breaking an infinite law. Because man is not infinite but is finite, his death has to be infinite because he can never pay the price. God had to create hell and not only that God had to make sure hell is eternal torment. But God is also love and in His love, God had a plan in store to reconcile man to Himself and anyone who wants to have eternal life can simply take it.

The Plan of Salvation

From the start, God shows us His love by killing an animal and clothing His children, Adam and Eve. He showed mercy to them and in His mercy He was going to send the Word to become the ultimate sacrifice for our sins. Why did God have to die to pay for all our sins? Because God is infinite so He only had to be punished for a finite amount of time, but there’s more to it. God has no sin, He never sinned and never will, it clearly says the wages of sin is death, God did not earn this punishment and death, so three days later He rose again from the grave, having paid all the sin of mankind. This is not only proof that Jesus Christ is God, but it’s also proof that we mean more to God than we can possibly imagine and it ultimately proves hell is eternal torment.

Conclusion

To recap, God is infinite, so is His laws and nature, man is not and man sinned against an infinite God. Hell is eternal torment and punishment and because man could never pay off the infinite debt, God had to do it. And because God did not deserve this punishment and the death, because He is without sin and those without sin do not deserve death and punishment. God dragged death and sin and all the works of Satan down with Him in hell and let it burn there for three days and then rose again in victory. He proved His love for us, He calls us His friends, His children, we should call Him Father, the eternal God, creator of all things, loves you. He wants you to be with Him in heaven, He does not want you to burn in hell, but you have a choice because you were made with free will. This gift can only be given you if you want it. Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends. – John 15:13

(April 18, 2016 at 12:30 pm)Cherubim Wrote:

Quote:do you have empirically based evidence the makemakes the existence of a god mmore likely than not, or even reasonably likely?  If so, what is it?

Many. The obvious one, the King James Bible.

The less obvious is information.

Examples of entities that do contain Information [UDI]:

The Bible
Newspaper
Hieroglyphics
Sheet music
Mathematical formulas

Examples of entities that do not contain Information [UDI] (one or more of the attributes are missing):

A physical star: Lacks a code and lacks meaning because it does not represent something else; it is the physical object that the word star represents.
A physical snowflake: Lacks a code and lacks meaning because it does not represent something else; it is the physical object.
Random sequence of letters: Has a symbol set, but lacks rules for words or grammar (no code). Since it is random, it has no meaning to any sequence of letters.
A physical piano: Lacks meaning because it does not represent something else; it is the physical object.

Fundamental Law 1 (FL1)
A purely material entity, such as physicochemical processes, cannot create a nonmaterial entity. (Something material cannot create something nonmaterial.)

Physical entities include mass and energy (matter). Examples of something that is not material (nonmaterial entity) include thought, spirit, and volition (will).

Fundamental Law 2 (FL2)
Information is a nonmaterial fundamental entity and not a property of matter.

First Law of Information (LI1)
Information cannot originate in statistical processes. (Chance plus time cannot create information no matter how many chances or how much time is available.)

Second Law of Information (LI2)
Information can only originate from an intelligent sender

= God exists.

Not really responsive. Newspaper or Bible without further information is nothing. What makes you think the bible is evidence of god, let alone evidence that makes god more likely than not? Provide evidence, not just a dubious list of where you might find evidence.

Your information ideas are too incoherent to refute.

(April 18, 2016 at 1:15 pm)Jenny A Wrote:

(April 18, 2016 at 12:30 pm)Cherubim Wrote: Many. The obvious one, the King James Bible.

The less obvious is information.

Examples of entities that do contain Information [UDI]:

The Bible
Newspaper
Hieroglyphics
Sheet music
Mathematical formulas

Examples of entities that do not contain Information [UDI] (one or more of the attributes are missing):

A physical star: Lacks a code and lacks meaning because it does not represent something else; it is the physical object that the word star represents.
A physical snowflake: Lacks a code and lacks meaning because it does not represent something else; it is the physical object.
Random sequence of letters: Has a symbol set, but lacks rules for words or grammar (no code). Since it is random, it has no meaning to any sequence of letters.
A physical piano: Lacks meaning because it does not represent something else; it is the physical object.

Fundamental Law 1 (FL1)
A purely material entity, such as physicochemical processes, cannot create a nonmaterial entity. (Something material cannot create something nonmaterial.)

Physical entities include mass and energy (matter). Examples of something that is not material (nonmaterial entity) include thought, spirit, and volition (will).

Fundamental Law 2 (FL2)
Information is a nonmaterial fundamental entity and not a property of matter.

First Law of Information (LI1)
Information cannot originate in statistical processes. (Chance plus time cannot create information no matter how many chances or how much time is available.)

Second Law of Information (LI2)
Information can only originate from an intelligent sender

= God exists.

Not really responsive. Newspaper or Bible without further information is nothing. What makes you think the bible is evidence of god, let alone evidence that makes god more likely than not? Provide evidence, not just a dubious list of where you might find evidence.

Your information ideas are too incoherent to refute.

holytext (DOT) org/proof-god-inspired-the-bible

Cherubim, I didn't ask you for preaching or copy pasting the mental acrobatics of apologetics. I asked for your opinion. Comprehensive, if you please.

(April 18, 2016 at 1:20 pm)abaris Wrote: Cherubim, I didn't ask you for preaching or copy pasting the mental acrobatics of apologetics. I asked for your opinion. Comprehensive, if you please.

You asked for my "opinion" and I gave it. I wrote that. Not liking the answer isn't my problem. Ask if you want an answer. If you don't want it, don't ask.