I am pretty sure that there will be an age long debate with two sides firmly entrenched as to what is canon. There is no way GRRM is writing two books in one year. (Unless THAT'S the reason why he's so late, he's super secret going to release both books right before season 7!!! )

So the show will conclude first, and, probably 8 years later or never at all, the final book of the series will be released. The purist argument is that the series author has the canon right (as it were) and that Weiss and Benioff merely adapted an idea, but there will be people arguing that canon is established once the show puts it out there.

Good arguments on both sides, even I forget sometimes which is which now. Sansa's story is on a different planet, but maybe Martin was getting there. Who knows?

Books came first so books are canon. The next seasons of the show will be fun and interesting but they are ultimately and adaptation of GRRM's original idea.

This coming from a show-fan-first

Canon can't mean anything else but GRRM's books in this context, no matter what the differences between the show and the books, unless I'm missing something here. What exactly do you guys mean by canon?

(April 23, 2016 at 6:35 pm)SteelCurtain Wrote: I am pretty sure that there will be an age long debate with two sides firmly entrenched as to what is canon. There is no way GRRM is writing two books in one year. (Unless THAT'S the reason why he's so late, he's super secret going to release both books right before season 7!!! )

So the show will conclude first, and, probably 8 years later or never at all, the final book of the series will be released. The purist argument is that the series author has the canon right (as it were) and that Weiss and Benioff merely adapted an idea, but there will be people arguing that canon is established once the show puts it out there.

Good arguments on both sides, even I forget sometimes which is which now. Sansa's story is on a different planet, but maybe Martin was getting there. Who knows?

This is an excellent post!

I would normally agree that books come first and are therefore canon.  But starting this month, this show is telling this part of the story first, and therefore there will be some argument about which is cannon.  I'm not making that argument, just pointing out I can already see that this cause a divide in some of the fans down the road.

Humans are very visual.  Even though I've reread the books more than once each, I also begin to confuse the books and TV shows sometimes.  Once I started reading the books while imagining the actors who play those roles, things can start overlapping in my head.

(April 23, 2016 at 9:56 pm)Excited Penguin Wrote: Canon can't mean anything else but GRRM's books in this context, no matter what the differences between the show and the books, unless I'm missing something here. What exactly do you guys mean by canon?

Whether you like or not, the show has taken an authority because there are people who haven't and won't read the books. I agree that the books, in my mind, will always be canon. But if some majorly important plot difference takes place between the two mediums (like who is the ruler at the end), then there will be a debate. Whether or not the debate is settled in your head makes no difference. The debate will take place, and I, for one can see good arguments on both sides.

(April 23, 2016 at 10:38 pm)SteelCurtain Wrote:

(April 23, 2016 at 9:56 pm)Excited Penguin Wrote: Canon can't mean anything else but GRRM's books in this context, no matter what the differences between the show and the books, unless I'm missing something here. What exactly do you guys mean by canon?

Whether you like or not, the show has taken an authority because there are people who haven't and won't read the books. I agree that the books, in my mind, will always be canon. But if some majorly important plot difference takes place between the two mediums (like who is the ruler at the end), then there will be a debate. Whether or not the debate is settled in your head makes no difference. The debate will take place, and I, for one can see good arguments on both sides.

This issue comes up every time there's a widely-followed adaptation of something. With Harry Potter I think Rowling said the films are canon unless they contradict the books. For GoT, however, GRRM has said time and time again that the books and the show are two different stories heading in a similar direction. I'd argue that there exists two separate and distinct canons; the books and the show. They cannot be one because certain characters don't exist, the map/lands contradict, etc. They're two different versions of a story. Canon for the show is anything in the show or anything the producers say. Canon for the books is anything in GRRM's novels or other ASOIAF works approved by GRRM, and anything GRRM says.

That's probably the best way to put it, but there are always going to be people who can't accept that much nuance.

The season has not even started and there are these many pages? xD

EP started it.