(May 3, 2016 at 11:37 pm)TheRocketSurgeon Wrote: I suspect he's referring to John 15:6... but the broader context is in Hebrews 6:4-6.

4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, 5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, 6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

Unfortunately, the verses don't say that a person was never saved. Verse 4 specifically says, "were once enlightened and have tasted of the heavenly gift", implying that they were saved, but are now considered unsaveable... and in a lot of trouble with God.

I am unfamiliar with any other verses that give an actual implication that a person who is no longer a believer was never in fact a believer. Perhaps I have missed something. I would be delighted to be enlightened.

(Edit to Add: He may be referring to the whole "no one can snatch them out of my hand" bit--I forget that verse. But I'm pretty damned sure it's referring to believers being unable to be saved through Jesus because of other Powers, not to it being impossible to have once been a believer and then cease to believe.)

I believe John 10:29 is what you were referring to.  My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.

Looks like I would also agree with everything you said as that is near exactly what I discern in the passage found in Hebrews 6.  I would add that in John 10:29 it appears the implication to be that no man (other than yourself) is able to pluck them from the Father's hand.

(May 3, 2016 at 5:55 pm)Losty Wrote:

(May 3, 2016 at 5:46 pm)Godschild Wrote:  That's so stupid it doesn't deserve an answer.

GC

Yet you responded anyways

I just want to know if I can do Hammy in the turtle butt without being smited down by god

We'll both get smited, go to nougat-hell and have a hell of a good time there!



Let's just hope we don't end up in mayo-limbo

(May 3, 2016 at 11:07 pm)Redbeard The Pink Wrote: GC believes that if you used to believe and don't now, then you were never a True Christian™. It's his convenient way of dismissing/ignoring anyone who used to buy into the same nonsense he does but was smart enough to extricate their brains from it.

GC probably thinks atheists never call each other out when they say "no real atheist" or "no true atheist". I call other atheists out all the time who pull that. Not even atheists agree on all things all the time.

You will never find any type of perfectly unifying label. Even under shared ideas there are always people who differ in views and not even atheists escape this.

If anyone has been following the Trump thread, they'd know, while most the atheist here don't like him, a couple atheists do. Just like Sunnis and Shiites are both Muslims. Just like Catholics and Baptists have the same God of Jesus. Just like Japanese Buddhists don't agree with Chinese Buddhists who don't agree with Tibet's Buddhists.

All 7 billion of us are the same species. Our labels are not magic, no label has magic powers. All nations have prisons and hospitals. Our species ability to be cruel or compassionate is in our species, not our labels. Religion is nothing more than the artificial excuse humans invent to create social pecking orders.

I think it's pretty clear why many of our resident theists think that atheists all agree. It's because they very rarely venture outside of the religious subforum. They almost never go and talk about any other topic with us, or you know... engage us as people. This isn't every theist here, but the majority, in my experience.

So of course all atheists are going to agree that they don't believe in God, and whatever specific god the theist is rooting for. By definition, that is the case.

It's really sad that only a handful bother to investigate any further on the forum... are they scared of what Jesus may think? Even some of those who have been here since I joined up. And if they do, they generally just turn everything into a religious battle whatever the topic.

(May 3, 2016 at 4:57 pm)Losty Wrote:

(May 3, 2016 at 4:55 pm)Alasdair Ham Wrote: Who cares. I want it anyway.

So...even if godschild is looking down on us?

I think you've just invented the perfect contraceptive, GC perving on you.

(May 3, 2016 at 5:18 pm)drfuzzy Wrote:

(May 3, 2016 at 4:44 pm)Godschild Wrote:  Correct you were never a Christian.

GC

I prayed and studied the Bible, went to church three times a week for over 40 years.  I went to a Protestant Christian School.  I have most of the wholly babble memorized.  I prayed constantly from time when I was instructed how to - - for help and to hear the voice of god.  

And you, who don't know me, know nothing about me, tell me I never was a Christian.  You are a complete and utter asshole.  - - And you wonder why all of your preaching at us earns you nothing but contempt.  It's because you are a contemptible waste of oxygen.

I think I've cracked GCs criteria for what is a true christian, if you know and understand what is contained within the bible and can make cogent arguments based on same then you're no true christian.

Only blind, uncomprehending and unquestioning acceptance of the right authority figue (GCs pastor) is a sign that you are truly christian.

(May 3, 2016 at 5:55 pm)Losty Wrote:

(May 3, 2016 at 5:46 pm)Godschild Wrote:  That's so stupid it doesn't deserve an answer.

GC

Yet you responded anyways

I just want to know if I can do Hammy in the turtle butt without being smited down by god

Only one way to find out, grab him, lean him over a wall and start beating into him. If your hair ends up on fire you know yhwh does not approve.

(May 3, 2016 at 11:30 pm)PETE_ROSE Wrote:

(May 3, 2016 at 11:07 pm)Redbeard The Pink Wrote: GC believes that if you used to believe and don't now, then you were never a True Christian™. It's his convenient way of dismissing/ignoring anyone who used to buy into the same nonsense he does but was smart enough to extricate their brains from it.

Sure seems like a lot of shouting.  I would wager GC's intentions are honorable.  I see he has been here for 6 years.  That has to take a heavy toll on someone.  Perhaps he should take a breather and look to Christ's ministry on earth, he truly had a way with people.   

There are some vulgar people here, but also some intelligent people that make strong points and can articulate their words well.  It is a humbling experience to come here and attempt to contend with them. Very few are well prepared to undertake this task .

"Honorable"....... There is another loaded highly subjective word. I am sure Iran's Military and North Korea's military personal would claim they are "honorable" too. 

Humans are not born with tribalism, they are taught tribalism. You can have all the good intent in the world and feel like you have the right position but also at the same time be dead wrong. 

We are not concerned with anyone's good intent. We are concerned with humans using old bronze age morality based on old books full of naked assertions. Now of course you cant force any religion out of existence, but as long as the religious vote and have weapons and have wars between them, we have every right and duty to question and even blaspheme that "good intent".

(May 4, 2016 at 3:55 am)robvalue Wrote: It's really sad that only a handful bother to investigate any further on the forum... are they scared of what Jesus may think? Even some of those who have been here since I joined up. And if they do, they generally just turn everything into a religious battle whatever the topic.

I don't know. I tend to hit the new posts button and take it from there. And to check my personal alerts if there are some.

(May 4, 2016 at 3:47 am)Brian37 Wrote: GC probably thinks atheists never call each other out when they say "no real atheist" or "no true atheist". I call other atheists out all the time who pull that. Not even atheists agree on all things all the time.
[...]

I disagree.