(May 3, 2016 at 3:14 pm)paulpablo Wrote: It really doesn't matter much either way.

Humans are fragile, weak animals who have to defecate and procreate and eat food = God.

Humans are amazing and unique seperate from animal life due to our amazing intelligence = God.

I don't see how either implies there is  god or not a god. 

a desolate universe doesn't prove to me there's no god and a complex intelligent brain DEFINITELY doesn't prove there is a god to me.

It baffles me when religious people point to human uniqueness in comparison with other animals as a sign of god. We're the most intelligent ape and that inherant ability is magnified by a strict culture of education.  Take away that culture of education and have a baby raised by dogs you don't get a kid who's going to work for NASA, advance medical science or do any "unique" human things, they're going to walk on all fours and shit in the corner.

A couple of hours on c++ would point you out to the dramatic amount of hardship and complication in the existence of such odds; that give a functioning system a meaning.

What I mean is; you don't expect a functioning system to be "just existing", let's count paul to get my meaning:

1-You are born
2-Ironically, there is exactly two parents: one ready with milk in the breasts, and another with lots of muscle mass to defend and hunt
3-These 2 don't just play a role on the "physical" art of the child; they also play on the psychological part too, growing up without a mommy or a daddy does indeed  cause damaging effects on a child's psychology.
4-Ironically, earth has everything you need to learn how to read and write:

-A sky with many stars,cycles, orbits & planets.
-A land full of stone, and elements like chalk
-A land full of animals, just like you referred, non of them is intelligent, thus humans -as animals- apply tribalism, hang around each other only, and eventually their own code wins, and civilization blossoms. No, a kid raised between a pack of dogs will get chopped by the beasts since they were -actually- wolves

Quote:New analysis suggests that domestic dogs evolved from European wolves that interacted with human hunter-gatherers. Gray wolfWIKIMEDIA, MARTIN MECNAROWSKIDomestic dogs evolved from a group of wolves that came into contact with European hunter-gatherers between 18,800 and 32,100 years ago and may have since died out. 

http://www.the-scientist.com/?articles.v...stic-Dogs/
Pick another animal..who isn't domesticated. I don't think a human would survive with animals like Tarzan. We don't belong. We are born masters in our domain, pathetic on a larger scale, but here on our domain we rule, over mountains and over seas. 
How do you explain civilizations uprising allover earth?
Why aren't there the "camel people" or "the man of pig"? actually, ALL of us became civilized -eventually-, the inferior guys just became "consumers" more than anything.
Can we understand animals if we lived with them since birth? 
LastPoet
The "God theory" enforces itself in a way..If I would have to say.
Just like I told Paul: too many odds; they force me into a corner where I raise my hand, asking: what the hell? literally.
MNMP

They keep the water running, after all people need to to do ablution, but their propaganda channels become more furious:
-for news, the "boob show" never stops (this is one of the main propaganda channels for the Sauds; called "Al-Arabeya"..all the reporters look like porn stars, and most its news is either kissing the ass of the Sauds or trying to show that saudi arabia "is just like europe"). BTW, all the reporters -females- are not Saudi; they're either Iraqi or from the levant-.



The month of ramadan in Saudi Arabia is not what you think. 
In the morning, people try to skip work. saudies don't work anyways, a lot of them, so lazy, many read the Quran like a radio, so they finish it before the month ends -as if it was a contest-. Literally, you can go to the mosque and hear "sdhfjskdfhjskjdfhsdc sdfsc"...that is one dedicated follower, reading the Quran, without understanding a single word from it.
Everybody stays under ACs. Usually, poor foreign working hand (from India, pakistan, Bngladish mainly) will be seen in the scorching heat, cleaning the trash the people left. Arabs don't work in such jobs, notice that everything is racial: Islam doesn't play any role, don't think that those Hindus will get a break for being Muslim, even though many are.
Then, the arab "family" would celebrate the breakfast with tons of food, A LOT. you'll see food commercials going like crazy, companies makes billions in the month.




Then, when the night comes, people go to the mosque for "Traweeh" prayer. Lots of them are so full, so you'll smell nasty smells. Farting makes the ablution get ruined, so the smell I mean is from the mouth.
Not all of them though..
Saudies -for your surprise- are clean (they have lots of money so they buy expensive perfume), actually. The smell usually comes from Egyptians, Pakistanies and Hindus, in my experience.
This is happy arabia. The "Umma". Everybody stands like pawns, understand nothing, repeat the Wahhabi propaganda -that is: leave-us-steal-oil-leave-people-die-by-our-hands-pray-and you're-saved type of thing..
About this site..Ah, I will be totally honest. My experience with "bypassing censorship" began with porn, I was porn addict as a teen, and censoring boobs and asses only made me more furious in the processes; you the story of the king who forbade the queen to visit room 100 but allowed her to go to the other 99 rooms. 

So I became familiar with proxy apps. Most guys in my generation -literally: most- go to the grid under a proxy, because everybody wants to see porn.
The stupid Saudi government brought its own damnation by blocking porn. Because of it, everybody has a proxy app now xD
Anyhow, I thank God first for not getting detected for what I write..

But maybe they're listening now? who knows?
But until that time; I'm no more than an AtlasS

About MS, believe me I never imagined myself living as a sick fella..especially something this big; I myself was shocked when the first MRI came to prove that my brain is...internally suffering from a problem.

I had epilepsy for a long time, but the greedy doctors never payed attention to my case, nobody told me to go through an MRI, only before 6 months or so when I started to walk like a zombie, I went to the hospital and got my brain scanned. Saudi Arabia loves to build "fancy hospitals" with fancy decorations, but brings the shittiest doctors and pays them mere pennies; they only give them cash if they made the patient "pay for more stuff", I can't count the number of times I went for EEG, but EEG doesn't detect MS !! But sending me there means easy $$ to the hospital and probably the doc's pocket, so...

Compared to Arab regimes, the "evil" must be redefined: what I always said on this forum, and tried to preach is how evil those system are..well it can't get simpler than this; you have the Sauds & Egypt as the main examples, the horrors I saw here makes me truly say what I also said lots of times: the west is better by far..

I criticize the UK for so many historical acts; involving the bring of the Sauds to the throne..the UK is not evil; the UK is just following its interest. And there are no problems if we burned as a conclusion..but MNMP, arab countries don't take asylum request, they also never take refugees. In the Syrian crisis, it was okay for reugees to die at the borders, they wouldn't even attempt because they know what's gonna happen Britian, France and Russia helped the dictator arab regimes to come and stay in power, for like..100 years?..until today support is still going..

I said it on the political section here; I'll say it again: the countries of Sykes-Picot are not countries; they are "farms" where we -the citizens- are mere cattle, waiting to get slaughtered. If we rebelled, we get slaughtered anyways...

Thank you for your invite, MNMP, truly. I wish if I had a better home, but I was sentenced by political reality to remain a statless pawn; in a big desert farm like Saudi Arabia. I know about some famous anti-Saudi regime individuals who took the UK as their haven.and the British regime seems nice in dealing with them, at least they don't chop their heads if they criticize the queen or the king..the UK is following

What made me hold on to this forum most of all, is that people think in here, where I'm the majority just follow the shadow of their own governments; the "norms"; actually the debates we have here is considered "crazy talking" to them..you can't imagine how isolated I feel. The UK..well..I guess it's always cloudy and cold there, I don't have to deal with the sun !

But if I ever go there, destroying Wahhabism, an idea after an idea, will never cease. Ah..I can at least rest assure that the Saud minions are not chasing me or putting an eye on my activity; recording what I say about them.

Sorry..that was long. You don't have to read it all.

Brian37

My argument is mainly evolved around the code; Brian.
"Too many odds"; I say.

Well, the "car poop" example you gave would be valid, but the fishy part is for YOU and THE CAR to exist in the first place.

Losty

I'm not delusional , Losty !





Look in the sun

robvalue

He did me so many favors..God I mean. When I lost my health, he was there to carry me around..the odds were in my favor, others weren't lucky like this, I'm thankful, he gave me a lot..

I'm living in under a dictatorship of racism and tribal bigotry, yet he gave me ability to learn an other language and temporary escape, through this forum, to some extent..

He was there for me. You said it yourself: you can't bypass the laws of the universe. 

I wonder, what would I do without him?
He exists.
The days I spent alone, were beyond belief..he was always there above me, to heal my wounds with the wisdom he showed. Sadly Sunna and Shia ruined it..

What happens next
We'll stop and go
The promises have already run cold
So now you know, so now you know

Well whether you are or not, I still like you

Have a song
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VV1XWJN3nJo&app=desktop

Atlas,

I talk to current Muslims and Ex Muslims from that part of the world all the time. What pisses me off about the assholes in the west, and yes we still are far better off, is that while there are plenty of theocratic sickos still living in the dark ages and a big enough minority controlling much of the Middle east, we also have far too many warmongering politicians and our right wing bigoted assholes, and even a few atheists, not most, but a few, that think bombing the fuck out of the Middle East will solve everything.

Then I think of you, and the Iranian atheists I talk to and even and those who have escaped to the west, knowing all of you still have families there, and I want to not only beat the shit(in my mind) out of your nuts, but also our nuts. THOR DAMN IT, ALL 7 BILLION OF US ARE HUMANS.

I fucking hate religion, not religious people, I simply fucking hate how it divides my fellow humans. I hate that you have to hide what you believe. I hate that my own sister when she told our family she was no longer a Christian, they gave her shit for months, that's finally calmed down.

I hate that Christians and Muslims and Jews all stupidly think they are chosen, when I know that our species is much older than any written religion and that DNA proves we are the same species.

I LOVE the compassion in my species, but every time I read a story like yours it makes me want to scream!

(May 1, 2016 at 1:45 pm)AtlasS33 Wrote: Really, who?

With your stinky feces, short lifespan, weak bodies, lack of resources?
You suffocate if you ever tried to leave home, even in spacecrafts your "lack of resources" is just pathetic, humans, a mere sign, for us to realize how weak we are.

It will be mad to claim that you came to be without help; if you don't believe in God, then the "universe" gave birth to you; you either obey its rules or perish. Go ahead; try your luck against a speeding object; collide with it and see how that human body shall fair against the strike; simplify the test and tough the boiler  for more than a minute or two when you make your morning coffee, see how that flesh would react.

Stars and mighty celestial objects, planets, moons, obey; one by one, in their patterns they cycle, and whomever breaks out and rebels: perish. Supernova..black hole..ruins.

Why does the Christian & Heathen mentality posses all humans? why is God simplified in the image of an old man, sitting on mount Olympus, or a son on a cross; an octupus-like Sheva, or a smiling overweight Buddha?

Who do we think we are? always the ego, even God -in our sight- needs to be human; must look human; and we look like God ourselves; "created in his image" they say..le

Who?
Disobey..come on..hold your breath..I dare you..I double dare you: you'll inhale the oxygen; eventually. and the only reason that makes us leave, is that we didn't achieve our dreams, not that we "don't wanna enjoy it precious life".But..

We can't see God..but indeed we can see ourselves,, and in the midst of meditating in our reflection, the collision of two stars just show us how small we are, how the defiance is so weak; like when two stars leave their orbit and cross paths..

Like when a black hole swallows a lost planet.
An unbreakable law..But ego, can indeed ruin the logic of such mentality.

Awww look the god believer is trying to make me look small in front of his imaginary friend. 
To put it like so still no evidence of god even if a god existed i would never bow to such a being
nor respect such a being in the first place.

I am very sorry to learn that you have MS Atlas

(May 2, 2016 at 4:04 pm)AtlasS33 Wrote: Despite the respect Stephen Hawkings, read his lines to sense that ego I'm talking about:

http://www.cnet.com/news/stephen-hawking...is-no-god/

Well, check this out: Hawkings claiming that the universe "began from nothing"..
How does this male sense?

If this is the general view, then this is the exact topic of my post: human ego.. We are Gods; they claim and say. 
I think hawkings made the biggest mistake in his observations, when he neglected God's possibility and role..Einestine, though, was walking on the logical path:

Quote:Albert Einstein's religious views have been studied extensively. He said he believed in the "pantheistic" God of Baruch Spinoza, but not in apersonal god, a belief he criticized. He also called himself an agnostic, while disassociating himself from the label atheist, preferring, he said, "an attitude of humility corresponding to the weakness of our intellectual understanding of nature and of our own being".[1][2] 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_...t_Einstein
I would personally say that he was a better scientist..with all respect to Hawkings..
Ego though..that human ego..

For a starter, Einstein rejected the idea of religions, at least the abrahamic religions. He was a pantheist he believes that the nature/laws of the universe is god, which in a sense is quite irrelevant, he has just redefined god. Not only that, but he believed in a non personal god which is not sentient and doesn't interact with humans which is the opposite of the god in your religion. But no matter how incredible and amazing he was, he too has no evidence for his beliefs.

Regarding Stehpawn Hawking who is also a brilliant mind, I'm pretty sure he is very intelligent, a genius and way more logical than the majority of us, so he knows what he's talking about. Also what you're doing when you're saying that his claim "The universe began from nothing" is nonsensical is you're using everyday logic as a counter argument while he's using physics and especially quantum physics which is (based on my knowledge) nowhere near the everday logic that we use.

It's not easy to debunk years of scientific work from brilliant minds with a few simple questions. But if you're gonna ask questions do it correctly and search for the answers instead of trying to figure out the answer with your mind alone and think you've "won" when you fail to find an answer. Also, let's say we have no knowledge at all about the origin of the universe etc. How does our lack of knowledge prove god's existence and if you think it does, how exactly does it? You're saying that we tiny humans suck, we're dumb and fragile, full of errors, in that case why can't you accept the statement that we humans don't have unlimited intelligence and will most likely never know everything? And that, yet again still doesn't prove god's existence it just shows our lack of knowledge.

Also, Atlas. I'm sorry that you have MS, I hope you'll be fine :/ It has always saddened me that so many people have to go through shit like that.

Atlas sorry to hear you have MS

(May 5, 2016 at 3:54 pm)AtlasS33 Wrote: What happens next
We'll stop and go
The promises have already run cold
So now you know, so now you know

You use programming as an example of how life must be designed.  Have you had any experience with Conway's Game of Life?  It shows how just 2 or 3 very simple rules can result in extremely complex outcomes and behaviors.