Millions of Christians/Muslims/Jews can't be wrong!

Except, you know, at least 2 of them are. Argument from popularity fail.

SteveII Wrote:

Mister Agenda Wrote:Sorry, it's so readily available that it didn't occur to me that you wouldn't easily find it yourself. Here you go:

http://www.pewforum.org/2012/10/09/nones-on-the-rise/

And in 15 years, if those China trends continue, Christians will be almost 20% of the Chinese population.

http://www.pewforum.org/2015/04/02/relig...2010-2050/

If you scroll down, you will see a chart that shows the change between 2015 and 2050. Christians in the US drop from 78.3% to 66.4%. Unaffiliated from 16.4% to 25.6%. Wolrdwide, Christians stay the same at 31.4% and unaffiliated drop from 16.4% to 13.2%.

And what are these unaffiliated? From your link: However, a new survey by the Pew Research Center’s Forum on Religion & Public Life, conducted jointly with the PBS television program Religion & Ethics NewsWeekly, finds that many of the country’s 46 million unaffiliated adults are religious or spiritual in some way. Two-thirds of them say they believe in God (68%). More than half say they often feel a deep connection with nature and the earth (58%), while more than a third classify themselves as “spiritual” but not “religious” (37%), and one-in-five (21%) say they pray every day.

What point are you trying to make?

That if you examined your numbers as carefully as you examined mine, you'd have noticed that the prediction for China doesn't take any confounding factors into account, it just blithely assumes the rate of increase will remain the same. The way that I did when I asserted 'Nones' would be 40% of the population in 30 years. That was just extrapolating the same rate of increase would hold for 30 years. Fortunately, PEW isn't as naïve in their estimations as Professor Yang.

And I certainly WAS NOT trying to claim that 'Nones' are atheists, so I've no idea why you were on about their makeup.

(May 6, 2016 at 11:46 am)Mister Agenda Wrote:

SteveII Wrote:http://www.pewforum.org/2015/04/02/relig...2010-2050/

If you scroll down, you will see a chart that shows the change between 2015 and 2050. Christians in the US drop from 78.3% to 66.4%. Unaffiliated from 16.4% to 25.6%. Wolrdwide, Christians stay the same at 31.4% and unaffiliated drop from 16.4% to 13.2%.

And what are these unaffiliated? From your link: However, a new survey by the Pew Research Center’s Forum on Religion & Public Life, conducted jointly with the PBS television program Religion & Ethics NewsWeekly, finds that many of the country’s 46 million unaffiliated adults are religious or spiritual in some way. Two-thirds of them say they believe in God (68%). More than half say they often feel a deep connection with nature and the earth (58%), while more than a third classify themselves as “spiritual” but not “religious” (37%), and one-in-five (21%) say they pray every day.

What point are you trying to make?

That if you examined your numbers as carefully as you examined mine, you'd have noticed that the prediction for China doesn't take any confounding factors into account, it just blithely assumes the rate of increase will remain the same.

And I certainly WAS NOT trying to claim that 'Nones' are atheists, so I've no idea why you were on about their makeup.

He is being insecure about his religion being wiped out of existence due to how many facts just break it apart.
christianity in the SEA religion along with abrahamic beliefs are highly hated especially in Japan.

Yes, there are a lot of polls out there . . . I notice that the numbers do not match between quite a few of them. That's normal.  And I only have a moment, so I can't find my sources - Washington Post? Pew Research? Telegraph?  . . . but it is generally accepted that in the industrialized world, the people claiming "no religious affiliation" is growing rapidly.  I saw quite a few polls that said that Christianity is growing in parts of China and Africa.  Islam is growing faster than any other religion.
    I read SOMEWHERE (I can go find the source later) that there are two predictors for the growth of religiosity:  1) Economic hardship.  -- When you're struggling to put food on the table, get clean water, etc., a religious community helps survival, gives emotional support, and most importantly, gives that hope that a deity will help soon - - or will send them to a place of feasting and streets of gold after they die.  And 2) Lack of education.  
     Religion was banned in China for . . . how long?  So to many, the message might be exotic and new.  But the Chinese place a high value on education - and their economy is rising - not without some recent hiccups, but improving.  So I doubt that China will be predominantly xtian - ever.

(May 6, 2016 at 11:39 am)SteveII Wrote:

(May 6, 2016 at 11:32 am)Time Traveler Wrote: But this is not a reason to believe in the supernatural baggage that comes along with Christianity. Religions prey on the human desire for security, belonging and community, all for the price of believing in ridiculous things and some form of tithe.

That was not my assertion, that was Abaris' point.

It works hand-in-glove with your original argument from "appeal" which I addressed earlier. On what grounds would you exclude the appealing draw of security, belonging and community for reasons some become or remain Christian?

Well, a lot of people around the world who became Christians as adults did so because they were hungry, and a missionary offered them food in exchange for going to mass and at least pretending to convert. Then, in their desperation for survival and food, they allowed their children to become indoctrinated into Christianity instead of their own cultural religion. Like, whole continents of Christians came to it this way. Congratz!

(May 6, 2016 at 11:40 am)Mister Agenda Wrote: 15% of American Christians becoming so as adults in a country that's 70% Christian doesn't seem that mysterious to me. It's still the religion to which they have the most exposure.

Third World countries are particularly vulnerable to missionary conversion. The Mormons and Muslims have also had great success in Africa. Africa is about 53% Muslim, it was estimate in 2002 that they were about 45% of the population. What is missionary success supposed to prove, again?

I am not trying to prove anything. I am defending the OP observation that adult (I am now clarifying) conversion to Christianity is based on what I wrote about Jesus and not 1) biological and social evolution and 2) cultural influence.

Missionary conversion success illustrates that there must be something about the message that resonates with the person rather than 1) and 2) above.

(May 6, 2016 at 11:57 am)Time Traveler Wrote:

(May 6, 2016 at 11:39 am)SteveII Wrote: That was not my assertion, that was Abaris' point.

It works hand-in-glove with your original argument from "appeal" which I addressed earlier. On what grounds would you exclude the appealing draw of security, belonging and community for reasons some become or remain Christian?

I'm sure that is part of the appeal. However there are other ways (including other religions) to get these things from. So why does Christianity seem to resonate well with people (judging by its continuous past and projected numerical growth)? I maintain it is the message I outlined in the OP.

(May 6, 2016 at 11:59 am)Aroura Wrote: Well, a lot of people around the world who became Christians as adults did so because they were hungry, and a missionary offered them food in exchange for going to mass and at least pretending to convert.  Then, in their desperation for survival and food, they allowed their children to become indoctrinated into Christianity instead of their own cultural religion.  Like, whole continents of Christians came to it this way.  Congratz!

Is that so? There are very few foreign missionaries in China. Why is Christianity growing so fast there? Additionally, Do you think the 15% of Christians who became Christians as adults in the US did so because someone fed them?

SteveII the more educated a country is and the more economically stable it is
the less religiosity it will have. Here in the US religion is dying off because of shit heads
doing bad things enough said and after awhile the bible starts to sound really... silly.