As this thread deteriorates, it must be time for;

But I like this thread...

(May 11, 2016 at 6:16 pm)Gemini Wrote:

(May 11, 2016 at 6:11 pm)vorlon13 Wrote: I just find them to be ESPECIALLY false, and unusually lamely inspired.   Joe Smith was particularly inept at birthing a religion, that he succeeded is a tremendous disappointment and provides a disturbing look into the unfortunate compulsive gullibility endemic then as well as now.

Like the book of Matthew. Seriously, Jesus is riding two donkeys? Two fucking donkeys?

And people have been taking this shit seriously for two thousand years...I can't even.

Yeah, I read about this. I believe Matthew was really desparate to fulfil Old Testament prophecies, so he was scouring the texts for things to write, but his ability to translate wasn't very good. The text he tries to refer to only mentioned one donkey, but mentioned it twice, and he thought it was two separate donkeys. It's a dead giveaway as to what the gospel authors were up to.

And yeah... people take this shit seriously? Beggars belief.

You guys.... always the same skeptics...

If Van Damme can ride two trucks at the same time, what's the problem with JC riding two donkeys?!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M7FIvfx5J10

(May 9, 2016 at 9:05 am)Emjay Wrote: What are your most convincing reasons for not believing in god? I don't mean convincing to other people (necessarily) but convincing to yourself... what reasons stop you going back (if you are an ex-theist) even if you wanted to?

I'm an ex-Christian so I have baggage and I admit that very occasionally I am tempted back but one of the reasons that prevents me is simply the fact of contradictions in the Bible: if there are contradictions it can't be infallible, and if it's not infallible but only 'inspired' then how can you trust any of it (or know what to trust)? Ultimately it is that reason that stops me in my tracks if I'm ever tempted to read the Bible again... I literally cannot get past the first few pages of Genesis without thinking 'this is silly' even if I actually want to go back to Christianity.

I'd love to hear what other core reasons people have for not believing... reasons that act like mental blocks to ever returning. Ashamedly I do have doubts from time to time and so am not 100% certain like Rob, but I'd like to be, and I think having a few more core reasons (rather than superficial/semantic reasons) would help 

...And if nothing/no one in the bible never claimed to be infallible? The closest thing we have is "All Scripture is ·inspired by God [breathed out by God; L God-breathed] and is useful for teaching, for ·showing people what is wrong in their lives [refuting error; rebuking], for correcting faults, and for ·teaching how to live right [training in righteousness]." from 1 Tim 3:16

The idea of biblical infallibility was to counter the authority of Papal Infallibility in the reformation movement. Meaning it is a foolish doctrine of man, and not a decree from God.

I say that because Paul seems to understand that the bible does not have to be perfect as 'prefection' is not required from us. We have been given the bible not as a item to worship or revere as holy, but as a tool so that we may seek the Holy Spirit/God which is perfect, and to use as a standard to 'proof' that what we sought and found was indeed the Holy Spirit.

People who 'need' the bible to be infallible do not understand what Basic Christianity is. Nor how it was intended to be established or maintained.

(May 9, 2016 at 9:15 am)Nymphadora Wrote: For me it's the contradictions in the buy bull along with the fact that when I was a christian and I did believe, I was continually let down time and time again. Additionally, whenever I asked a church elder a question challenging the existence of god, I was given a ton of excuses and told to "get it right" with god.

Did you ever consider that God was not a Genie? And wasn't here to grant you wishes?

If you have questions ask them here.

(May 9, 2016 at 10:06 am)vorlon13 Wrote: Hard to pick one, and the 'one' can change as new outrages occur, but for today the incredible rate of schisms occurring is to me, an insuperable problem for the theists.  And if you think about it, that problem is entirely of the theists making, no atheists had to 'do' or say anything to 'induce or contrive' that problem for the theists, they did it entirely on their own to themselves.

Even a small, recent  off shoot of Christianity, Mormonism, has schism-ed itself well over 100 times in less than 2 centuries, and some of the offshoots are PROFOUNDLY different from the original LDS (which itself in it's current form is grotesquely and copiously changed from it's original invocation) such as the Baneemyites.

How can an 'Eternal and Unchanging God' as virtually all of them assert exists be so maddeningly vague, confused and confusing, so as to inspire over 78,000 (and counting) variants in just the Christian portion of human religiosity??


Any theists here want to weigh in on this and try and convince me not only is schismatism A-one okey dokey and a salient feature of their God, and/or, despite all the schisms there is still an absolutely reliable means of determining amidst all the dross, chaff and spuriously plentiful mutations of Christendom, the One True Faith ???

This is an easy one..

What if God's ultimate rule was to simply do the best you can to love/worship Him and each other as you would want to be loved/treated?

Now lets apply that to the whole of humanity. Most of which are different. Meaning different strengths and weaknesses. Lets say you are a song writter and to love God with all of your you need to write and sing songs. And I'm really gifted at bible research. Now imagine a church dedicated to only my pursuit, where the services and the worship are directed towards those who like to worship via bible study as I do...

Now, that's just fine and dandy if in fact worshiping God with all that you can muster centers around bible study, but If you have a gift like song writing, then you are not following His greatest Command. Therefore, there needs to be a separation so that you can full fill God's greatest command by using all of your gifts and talents, and I can do the same.

Where Christianity is different than all other religions is it hangs on just two Primary rules. And because of this, the execution of said rules was and always has been intended to be different. Even in the bible the letters to the different churches has Paul giving and addressing different rules to different regions/cities. Because they all have different strengths and weaknesses.

This is where people like you mess up with their understanding of the church. Paul likes the church as a body made up of different parts. Just because we don't look the same or have the same function in the body does not mean we are excluded from being a member of the body. This works on an individual level as well as on a larger systematic scale. Meaning a denominational/schism scale.

(May 9, 2016 at 10:12 am)pocaracas Wrote: If there was a deity that wanted us to worship it, it would make itself known to us ALL.
As it stands, faulty human psychology seems to have been at work and generated all the presently known mythologies.

I'm open to "believing", if everyone suddenly starts "believing" in the same one deity (or deity group)... and, by believing, I mean "knowing".

And if that deity doesn't want "All" to worship him? What would he do then?

(May 9, 2016 at 10:20 am)Chad32 Wrote: My most convincing reason is that the creation story, and jesus story, is not really all that unique. It's not difficult to find a long list of creator gods, or individuals who had lives similar to the Jesus story. Yahweh had a son. You want to know how many sons Zeus had?

Even if Yahweh and Jesus were real, I'd have reasons for not worshiping them, but as far as just not believing they exist, it would be the fact that stories like this were pretty common throughout history. Yahweh and Jesus are not unique, and judaism is not the first religion in history. Not even the first monotheistic one.

people say this alot. it is the new default since that "Zoro" youtube video, but if you were to honest look up the stories, and trace them back to their oldest manuscripts the ones that are proven to be older than the bible don't really coincide with the bible like people pretend they do, and the ones that mirror the bible are often times traceable back to after the bible had been compiled (even if the religion was much much older.)

This is just a lazy excuse not to believe.