Okay Drich, you win. Enjoy it and commence strutting. I have no specific citations to offer you. The best I can do is point you towards the main book I learnt all of this from and which the closest thing I've got to a Bible... the book that changed my life: Computational Explorations In Cognitive Neuroscience

But to truly understand what I'm talking about you'd pretty much have to read the whole thing and actually take it in. So the best I can offer is an attempt at a summary and this post from another thread - http://atheistforums.org/thread-40435-po...pid1193511 - explains pretty well the neural network dynamics I'm talking about here. It's not about bias specifically but it is covered and that's what I mean by bias in this context... the biasing effect specific to bidirectional neural networks like the Cerebral Cortex and which is at the core of its functioning. But if my word is worthless then obviously you don't have to read it, but it's there if you want to.

And yes of course I'm affected by bias, everybody is... it's core to how the brain functions. Wherever there is strong emotion there is bias. I'm biased against Christianity as a whole and certain individual Christians, including you, to the extent that they anger me. And that anger and bias in turn leads to douchebaggery. You're a douche, I'm a douche and as long as we both see each other that way neither of us is going to convince the other of anything because there is too much bias involved.

I don't think there is a "most for me". More like a collection of data I ran into over the years that added up.

I can only really tell you what got the ball rolling. I was working back in the late 80s as a day laborer, and a carpenter, no pun intended, asked me "what if Jesus was just a man"..... That didn't make me give up right then, but it did make some sense because, although prior I really wanted it to be true, something about all the magic and doomsday stories I heard in church, while I couldn't place my finger on it, didn't make sense.

The second but equal nail came later when I saw a display at the Smithsonian museum of the Angkor temple complex, from Cambodia. In it's almost thousand year reign Buddhists and Hindus mixed and the long hallway showed the slow progression of mixing. Having known that the NT was based on the Jewish OT, I thought, "Well if this mixing can happen here what makes any religion original? I still didn't know for years that even Yahweh was taken from Canaanite polytheism.

But even then I wasn't an all out atheist, I was still an agnostic theist, or what people call a deist.

My final nail came in college, when I met another atheist. I still kept it to myself for a while but with him I finally felt comfortable not believing at all.

BUT it doesn't stop there, I still back then was uneducated compared to now. My quest for like minded people didn't happen until after 9/11 when I read an AP opinion in our local paper that originated out of Chicago. It was about an Atheist nurse who was saying atheists were being left out of the mourning process as a nation. I wish I had kept that article and wish I could thank her for what she did for me.

It was at that point I said, fuck it, I am going to get on line. I really did have fear, because of all the bullshit I was sold by society, that I might be joining some lawless advocates. It took me less than a few days to see I had nothing to worry about. I have not looked back since.

I started out on the atheistnetwork, which still exists but not owned by the same people and is a shell of it's old days because of the explosion of social media it had to compete with. Then Infidel Guy started his website, even had 24/7 atheist radio feed to which many of us had original shows on it. I did one called "Did I Think That Or Say It"

Unfortunately the economy busted and Infidel Guy couldn't keep up the cost and has since moved on to other things. He's still doing well though. His website is where I originally hosted all my poetry, had to move it because of his decision. Don't blame him though.

There are too many pieces for me to count to say I can put them in order of "most". I wont be a selfish dick and say I did it all by myself. There are far too many people over the past 15 years who I have learned from, and the books I have read to be that conceited. They had to learn those things before they passed it to me.

I will say if it were not for all those who put that data in my head, I'd be an easy target for a slick snake oil salesman.

I think however if you are going to force me, not literally, but if I have to say a "most", it would be the size of our galaxy, and size and age of the universe, and knowing there were no written religions 200,000 years ago, much less 13.8 billion years ago. I simply cannot cling to old bronze age morality knowing what I know now.

(May 16, 2016 at 9:44 am)pocaracas Wrote:

(May 16, 2016 at 9:03 am)Drich Wrote: Ah, I wrongly assumed all people who claim they want proof of God, do and are willing to search for it.

You don't mind God comming to you, you are not willing to go to God.

Does that sum things up?

How do you search for something that doesn't exist?

seriously?!?!?
Do I need to make a video to explain to you that in order to declare something does not exist in a particular frame work one must have complete mastery/understanding of everything in that frame work? For instance I can only say that squid meat is nonexistent in a Big Mac If Indeed know that a big mac only contains to all Beef Patties Special sauce Lettuce Cheese and a sesame seed bun, and I know what is in the 'special sauce.' There can't be any unknowns if I state something does not exist.

Where you fools believe you have complete mastery and knowledge of the whole universe, in reality there is only educated guessing based on observations made from a singular point in time, and from a fixed point in space. It is From this limited universal view, you stake your claim that God can not exist.

Otherwise your foolish question should have been phrased "How do you search for the unknown/unknowable given out current 'scientific methods?' Rather you infer complete knowledge of time and Space and claim God can not exist.

Quote:How do you search for an idea?

It depends on the Idea. It all starts with research. First isolate and identify those who claim to have contact or knowledge with what you are looking for and then explore methods of contact.

Quote:How do you search for dragons? and faeries? and wizards?

There you start with a definition.
Dragons can be identified as reptiles, plants, or even women. Fairies could include gay men, birds, and even a lost race of humanity. Wizards could be an Adj the describes something wonderful, to a frequently asked questions tab on a software package, to the Greek use of the word that describes a pharmacologist.

Again, inorder to take an objective look at what may seem as the fantastic requires grounding both parties into a set of definations that outline what is the pair is looking for.

Now obviously when you say God we both can agree your idea of it does not exist as you've no doubt tried to sumon your idea of a deity and it has left you flat. Naturally you being the center of the universe as YOU know it assume when I say God we mean the same deity you have already dispelled.

My point here in this thread, is we are not talking about the same thing. Meaning all you've done you whole life to disprove God does not apply as your "tinkerbell" is not nor does it have anything to do with the ancient race of humanity I've discovered.

Quote:How do you search for a god?

You explore the claims the God makes in his holy books then you talk to followers. See if you qualify for a claim then follow through with it.

Quote:Assume such a thing exists and then voilá, you're convinced it does.

Assume that what believers do and voila' you can shut your mind off to any unpleasant "thinking." perfect reasoning, huh?

Quote:I'm sure psychology is beyond your pay grade, but I'd invest in learning some about it.

As I am sure everything written here goes in one ear and out the other as it is not in youtube form, but still yet I give you the benfit of the doubt from time to time even though I know it is a waist of time.

(May 16, 2016 at 10:29 am)Rhythm Wrote: It doesn't matter how much you ramble on about it.  People have tried your method...and it didn't work.   Do you expect anyone to take the god-advice of a charlatan seriously?

Two things.. One not my method Christ Himself puts it out there.

Two it did work, but not as expected so people quit and did not "Knock" past the point of abandoning their old faith.

(May 16, 2016 at 10:42 am)IATIA Wrote:

(May 16, 2016 at 9:09 am)Drich Wrote: You put a lot of time in dispelling theist arguments. That is not the actions of a disinterested third party. those are the actions of someone desperately looking to be 'proved' wrong.

Sorry sport me thinks thou doeth protest too much.

This is an atheist forum.  We do not accept the reality of a god and do not discuss it amongst ourselves. 

Welcome to AF.ORG Noob, you should really post your first post in the welcome/introduction thread. That said AF.ORG  differs from AF.Com (where you apparently came from) because members here discuss why they do not believe in God regularly and even start threads with this title so that they may share how and why they do not believe in God. What's even more funny is that long time members here are so disconnected from this fact that they will make the claim they do not do this here WHILE POSTING IN A THREAD DEDICATED TO "DISCUSSING THE REALITY OF GOD"

(May 16, 2016 at 11:35 am)abaris Wrote:

(May 16, 2016 at 11:15 am)Drich Wrote: We don't have to be 100% right to find this grace, we need only to know and follow Christ. The only think I am trying to communicate above and beyond anyother salvation message is a direct line between those who need 'proof' and God. In that 'proof' via the Holy Spirit is possible, but only if we humble ourselves and approach on his terms.

Which differes from denomination to denomination, not to speak of individuals inside said denominations, making up their own versions. Even before I left faith, I pretty much gave up on listening to people telling me what to believe and what to do. They all contradicted themselves and mixed up their very own potion of makebelief.

you don't understand the depth of what I said here...

It allows for the difference between members of the same domination as well as those who belong to different ones. It unites everyone under the same "Body of Christ" Even though we all worship differently.

(May 16, 2016 at 12:30 pm)Wyrd of Gawd Wrote:

(May 16, 2016 at 9:44 am)pocaracas Wrote: How do you search for something that doesn't exist?
How do you search for an idea?
How do you search for dragons? and faeries? and wizards?

How do you search for a god? Assume such a thing exists and then voilá, you're convinced it does. perfect reasoning, huh?
I'm sure psychology is beyond your pay grade, but I'd invest in learning some about it.

When you find the shit you will be able to find the creature.  So far no one has been able to find God's shit.

got a mirror?

(May 16, 2016 at 3:33 pm)Drich Wrote:

(May 16, 2016 at 10:29 am)Rhythm Wrote: It doesn't matter how much you ramble on about it.  People have tried your method...and it didn't work.   Do you expect anyone to take the god-advice of a charlatan seriously?

Two things.. One not my method Christ Himself puts it out there.

If you say so.  Looks like christ was wrong then, huh?

Quote:Two it did work, but not as expected so people quit and did not "Knock" past the point of abandoning their old faith.

The tool's explanation for why the magic doesn't work.  Again, people have tried your method, it didn't work.  Perhaps something else is required.  If your overall claim is true (god is real, jesus is real, you had a genuine experience of the divine), that simply -has- to be the case.  You believe that you had this very real experience  because you "A/S/K"ed...but this is simple misattribution. That would be the exceedingly generous explanation for this problem. I do not grant the exceedingly generous explanation, in your case.

(May 16, 2016 at 3:44 pm)Drich Wrote:

(May 16, 2016 at 12:30 pm)Wyrd of Gawd Wrote: When you find the shit you will be able to find the creature.  So far no one has been able to find God's shit.

got a mirror?

No, if you want to find God look in the mirror yourself. The only place god/s/God/deities exist are in the minds of the people who wish they were true. They are a reflection of your own desires, insecurities, fears and narcissism. We have long given up on the idea of Santa for adults and being threatened with coal in our stockings. You've god a pet god claim, so what, so do other people with other god claims, get in line, take a number.

(May 16, 2016 at 3:41 pm)Drich Wrote: Welcome to AF.ORG Noob, you should really post your first post in the welcome/introduction thread. That said AF.ORG  differs from AF.Com (where you apparently came from) because members here discuss why they do not believe in God regularly and even start threads with this title so that they may share how and why they do not believe in God. What's even more funny is that long time members here are so disconnected from this fact that they will make the claim they do not do this here WHILE POSTING IN A THREAD DEDICATED TO "DISCUSSING THE REALITY OF GOD"

They are started for the benefit of the theists to give us a toy to play with.

I have been here longer than you.

You obviously have the same problem as most theists here in that you do not read stuff outside of your little world of delusion.