(May 22, 2016 at 3:11 pm)Janice_Spokes Wrote:

(May 22, 2016 at 3:08 pm)Losty Wrote: Why are you referring to anyone as retard? What is wrong with you?

I just think its best to be plain-spoken as opposed to.. dishonest.

Retards seem to be anyone who is dumb in the head, but its not their fault. The way they were born.

Whats wrong with calling them retards? Its not a curse.. just a fact of life

Can you use the correct phrase. They are referred to as "republicans". By the way I'm british so I'm saying this with the distinct advantage of distance.

(May 22, 2016 at 3:27 pm)downbeatplumb Wrote: So you would inflict lifelong suffering and hardship on multiple individuals purely for your own selfish self righteousness, for shame Janice for shame.

According to Janice's view of things, Jesus created the suffering and we're just supposed to love him for it. A little too much like Battered Spouse Syndrome for my liking.

(May 22, 2016 at 3:27 pm)downbeatplumb Wrote:

(May 22, 2016 at 3:19 pm)Janice_Spokes Wrote: You mean would I cut him/her out of my womb before they were born? No of course not.

So you would inflict lifelong suffering and hardship on multiple individuals purely for your own selfish self righteousness, for shame Janice for shame.

Christians love suffering. They love watching it, causing it, and enduring it. And they think we are the crazy bad guys.

(May 22, 2016 at 3:23 pm)Janice_Spokes Wrote: What do you mean it's not a baby? The "fetus" starts growing finger nails, and has a heartbeat within weeks of its conception.[...]

Fetus is not a baby, just like an egg is not a chicken. Completely different recipes...

(May 22, 2016 at 3:23 pm)Janice_Spokes Wrote:

(May 22, 2016 at 3:20 pm)Cthulhu Dreaming Wrote: You mean like equivocating the meaning of "baby"?

Troll.

What do you mean it's not a baby? The "fetus" starts growing finger nails, and has a heartbeat within weeks of its conception.

Why is it, that when Princess Kate was pregnant people weren't talking about the "royal clump of cells?"

Why is it that when a woman miscarries (in polite society anyway) people are in sorrow over her lost child, and never tell her "it was a clump of cells, get over it!" Maybe they say that in New York City, but not anywhere I've ever been!

Im just saying, even if it's not an actual baby, its enough of a baby to matter. Its not a clump of hamburger meat, but atheists seem to treat it as such.

Look, lady. Even if we grant your argument, that a fertilized egg is a full human being, it comes down to a balancing of rights between humans. The right to bodily integrity, which includes the ability to choose how and when we procreate, is unassailable. Even though (per this argument) the fetus-baby is also a human, it does not possess the legal right to *force* the mother to use her own body to carry it to term, and to risk the mother's life in giving birth (childbirth is roughly 16 times more lethal to the mother than abortion).

I'll try to explain via analogy. Let's say that you convince me to drink antifreeze, and my kidneys shut down. You're my only kidney donor match on the planet. I will certainly die if you do not undergo an operation (at risk to your own life) in order to save my life... and it's certainly because of your action that I am only able to live via your organs. With me so far?

The question is: do we have the legal right to force you to save my life by risking yours, to invade your body to get the kidneys even if you don't want to give up that kidney or undergo the process?

As a moral question, I think most people would agree that you should give up your kidney to keep me alive. But that's very different from the legal question of whether or not it would be ethical to force you to do so by law. 

The same applies to our views about abortion. No one likes abortion. But it would be a far worse world, as far as I am concerned, if people who were against abortion in all circumstances were able to make the government use its power to force others to conform to their beliefs about it. It would be a far worse world if we told people they had to give birth to any child they did not wish to produce, that they had to place their own lives at risk in order to save the life of another.

That does not mean we think of disabled persons as "lesser" people. They are simply products of mistakes in DNA and/or fetal development. If they are born (if their parents choose to bring them into the world anyway), then they deserve the absolute equal respect and whatever accommodation they need from our society.

I believe you are letting emotions get in the way of reasonable thinking on this topic, as evidenced by the use of shaded language, which others are trying to point out to you. It's why they think you're trolling us.

(May 22, 2016 at 3:27 pm)downbeatplumb Wrote:

(May 22, 2016 at 3:19 pm)Janice_Spokes Wrote: You mean would I cut him/her out of my womb before they were born? No of course not.

So you would inflict lifelong suffering and hardship on multiple individuals purely for your own selfish self righteousness, for shame Janice for shame.

Its not suffering! Retarded people have a lot to offer.

A boy in my son's church group is retarded. My son is so good/kind to him, and its been a blessing watching their friendship flourish.

Tell me this. If a woman gives birth to an autistic or a retard and she kills him.. is she a good person/hero, for being willing to go to jail for her family's greater wealth/happiness?

Without legal abortion, illegal abortion would come back with all the horrors that brought.

(May 22, 2016 at 3:36 pm)downbeatplumb Wrote: Without legal abortion, illegal abortion would come back with all the horrors that brought.

Can you give me some statistics on illegal abortions? I understand the whole "coathanger thing" was a myth.

Look at the countries where abortion is illegal. how many illegal abortions are there?

Also, if there were some risk to the mom's life in kiling her baby (whether through infection or whatever) it might make her wise up, and think ( in a selfish way of course) "I don't wanna die/get injured.. Id better bear and love this baby as my lord asks me to!"

Also, with all these women getting abortions.... Have they never heard of adoption??

Another thing.... whenever someone argues for protecting the unborn someone always brings up the example of "well what about some teenager who is raped?"

I think it should be allowed in that instance and think its a hideous circumstance. But let's be realistic. Far and away most of the time women seeking abortions aren't doing it because of that. Why don't liberals admit, that very often, perhaps even most of the time it is women who conceived after they forgot to take the pill, after the condom broke, or for some other reason, that they were unable to escape the consequences of their "screw everyone but me" hard partying life style?

Half the single mothers are such because of a simple lack of self control. Anyway, should we really encourage such a "consequence free" lifestyle? Instead of our politicians caving into this spirit, they should have the courage to say "You brought this burden on yourself. You bear it."

You're a real fucking asshole, you know that?

(May 22, 2016 at 3:36 pm)Janice_Spokes Wrote:

(May 22, 2016 at 3:27 pm)downbeatplumb Wrote: So you would inflict lifelong suffering and hardship on multiple individuals purely for your own selfish self righteousness, for shame Janice for shame.

Its not suffering! Retarded people have a lot to offer.

A boy in my son's church group is retarded. My son is so good/kind to him, and its been a blessing watching their friendship flourish.

Tell me this. If a woman gives birth to an autistic or a retard and she kills him.. is she a good person/hero, for being willing to go to jail for her family's greater wealth/happiness?

You are speaking about two different things. Abortion is not murder no matter how much you want to equate the two. For example, my wife had a spontaneous abortion or miscarriage a number of years ago. We noticed it and carried on with our day, it was not a baby it was a clump of cells, why she miscarried I don't know but it was probably natures way of stopping a mistake, we have more sophisticated techniques than nature supplies so we can use that.
If a baby had died I would have been broken, but it was a large clump of cells.
By the way when you say "retarded" what do you mean? which of the myriad illnesses that ignorant people call retarded do you mean?