Quote: From MSN.com:
Cartels getting more aggressive
While the circumstances surrounding individual cases can be difficult to ascertain, authorities in the U.S. say one thing is very clear: The cartels are pushing new boundaries when it comes to targeting Americans.

Recent law enforcement bulletins have stated that cartels have instructed members to shoot and kill American border agents using AK-47 assault rifles, according to testimony presented March 31 at a hearing before the House Subcommittee on Homeland Security.

"The shooting of special agents Zapata and Avila is a game changer which alters the landscape of the involvement of the United States in Mexico's war against the drug cartels," said U.S. Rep. Michael McCaul, R-Texas, chairman of the subcommittee. "For the first time in 25 years, the cartels are now targeting American law enforcement."

“The feds say our side of the border is safe,” he said, “but we have bullet holes in our schools and businesses that say otherwise.”

So annoying. I still hear the occassional bleeding heart liberal saying how much the US should just have open borders. What a bunch of goddamn bullshit!
"Hey the Mexicans don't want to live in their shithole of a country. Lets just let them all come over here. They can bring their drugs and their illegal guns and their cartels and they can destroy our already teetering economy and we can create national holidays for them and set up their own little private communities and - screw it ... lets just make Mexico part of the US and everything will be a perfect utopia because OBVIOUSLY there's no negative side to doing away with all our borders. After all, we're misguided liberals who live in la la land where the government pays for everything and everyone is equal and no one has to work because everything is free and happy and wonderful and ..." ... goddamn! that's a lot of stupidity!
Hundreds of Americans (of all races) are losing their lives on our borders because the President of Mexico wanted to join the "war on drugs" - and now WE have to fight it! If it were up to me, we'd stop fucking around with every other country in the world (mind our own business for a change) and put every last soldier we have around the perimeter of that country and go kick the FUCKING shit out of Mexico for completely ignoring the basic human rights of it's next door neighbor ... US!

What's our president go and do?!? Not only does he NOT bring our troops home, but he goes and gets us militarily involved in TWO MORE COUNTRIES, and puts the equivalent of a "band aid" on our border patrol problem. The world already hates us. So I say, leave them alone and fix the problems you can fix. Protect our people from the thugs that live in that shithole known as Mexico.

Talk to me Americans ... are you with me??

No.

Because racist politicians cannot be trusted.


http://www.nytimes.com/2010/06/20/us/20crime.html

Quote:But the rate of violent crime at the border, and indeed across Arizona, has been declining, according to the Federal Bureau of Investigation, as has illegal immigration, according to the Border Patrol. While thousands have been killed in Mexico’s drug wars, raising anxiety that the violence will spread to the United States, F.B.I. statistics show that Arizona is relatively safe.

People are entitled to their own opinions.....but not their own facts.

(April 18, 2011 at 9:24 pm)Minimalist Wrote: No.

Because racist politicians cannot be trusted.

Quote:But the rate of violent crime at the border, and indeed across Arizona, has been declining, according to the Federal Bureau of Investigation, as has illegal immigration, according to the Border Patrol. While thousands have been killed in Mexico’s drug wars, raising anxiety that the violence will spread to the United States, F.B.I. statistics show that Arizona is relatively safe.

People are entitled to their own opinions.....but not their own facts.

Facts, like opinions, are always disputed when it comes to politics and the media. Both sides will simply claim that the other side does not have the real facts. We're not talking about scientific evidence here ... that would be undisputable. This is policy and unless you're a border gaurd or a child sitting in a school thats under gunfire, than neither I or anyone else can truly know what "facts" are unbiased and totally true.

Cinjin Cain Wrote:So annoying. I still hear the occassional bleeding heart liberal saying how much the US should just have open borders. What a bunch of goddamn bullshit!

Not all liberals are the "bleeding heart" type, and not all liberals want the borders open, especially now. Then again, I am left of center. A moderate Progressive.

Cinjin Cain Wrote:"Hey the Mexicans don't want to live in their shithole of a country. Lets just let them all come over here. They can bring their drugs and their illegal guns and their cartels and they can destroy our already teetering economy and we can create national holidays for them and set up their own little private communities and - screw it ... lets just make Mexico part of the US and everything will be a perfect utopia because OBVIOUSLY there's no negative side to doing away with all our borders. After all, we're misguided liberals who live in la la land where the government pays for everything and everyone is equal and no one has to work because everything is free and happy and wonderful and ..." ... GODDAMNIT I'm pissed off!!!!

Conservatives are just as bad when it comes to that. They rant and rave against the liberals and the illegals, but then they employ the illegals.The liberals want the illegals to have human rights. The conservatives complain about the illegals publicly on Monday, then have the illegals cut their grass on Tuesday. I also think you are strawman HARD at the end of your rant

Cinjin Cain Wrote:Hundreds of Americans (of all races) are losing their lives on our borders because the President of Mexico wanted to join the "war on drugs" - and now WE have to fight it! If it were up to me, we'd stop fucking around with every other country in the world (mind our own business for a change) and put every last soldier we have around the perimeter of that country and go kick the FUCKING shit out of Mexico for completely ignoring the basic human rights of it's next door neighbor ... US!!

THIS is why I want the border watched hard right now. I dont want that civil war to spill out into our country. Regardless of what "facts" the FBI or some agency puts out. The facts are: Mexico is in a civil war, lets secure our border and stay out of it.

Cinjin Cain Wrote:What's our president go and do?!? Not only does he NOT bring our troops home, but he goes and gets us militarily involved in TWO MORE COUNTRIES, and puts the equivalent of a "band aid" on our border patrol problem. The world already hates us. So I say, leave them alone and fix the problems you can fix. Protect our people from the thugs that live in that shithole known as Mexico.
Talk to me Americans ... are you with me??

Im pissed about him not bringing troops home. Im pissed about escalating the war. Im pissed that ten years after the 9/11 attack that our border patrol hasnt changed.

(April 18, 2011 at 10:17 pm)reverendjeremiah Wrote:

Cinjin Cain Wrote:So annoying. I still hear the occassional bleeding heart liberal saying how much the US should just have open borders. What a bunch of goddamn bullshit!

Not all liberals are the "bleeding heart" type, and not all liberals want the borders open, especially now. Then again, I am left of center. A moderate Progressive.

Cinjin Cain Wrote:"Hey the Mexicans don't want to live in their shithole of a country. Lets just let them all come over here. They can bring their drugs and their illegal guns and their cartels and they can destroy our already teetering economy and we can create national holidays for them and set up their own little private communities and - screw it ... lets just make Mexico part of the US and everything will be a perfect utopia because OBVIOUSLY there's no negative side to doing away with all our borders. After all, we're misguided liberals who live in la la land where the government pays for everything and everyone is equal and no one has to work because everything is free and happy and wonderful and ..." ... GODDAMNIT I'm pissed off!!!!

Conservatives are just as bad when it comes to that. They rant and rave against the liberals and the illegals, but then they employ the illegals.The liberals want the illegals to have human rights. The conservatives complain about the illegals publicly on Monday, then have the illegals cut their grass on Tuesday.
Since not all liberals are the "bleeding heart" type, than obviously you understand that not all conservatives are the "employ the illegals" kind. I actually DO have some very liberal views even though I'm technically a conservative.
I also think you are strawman HARD at the end of your rant
Actually, you may have a point. This post caught the tail end of a debate I was just having earlier today with a civil engineer on our jobsite .... thus I may have gone a bit overboard. That being said, I don't believe I'm wrong, but I do think you and I probably agree on a lot of things (maybe not all) concerning this issue.

Cinjin Cain Wrote:Hundreds of Americans (of all races) are losing their lives on our borders because the President of Mexico wanted to join the "war on drugs" - and now WE have to fight it! If it were up to me, we'd stop fucking around with every other country in the world (mind our own business for a change) and put every last soldier we have around the perimeter of that country and go kick the FUCKING shit out of Mexico for completely ignoring the basic human rights of it's next door neighbor ... US!!

THIS is why I want the border watched hard right now. I dont want that civil war to spill out into our country. Regardless of what "facts" the FBI or some agency puts out. The facts are: Mexico is in a civil war, lets secure our border and stay out of it.

Cinjin Cain Wrote:What's our president go and do?!? Not only does he NOT bring our troops home, but he goes and gets us militarily involved in TWO MORE COUNTRIES, and puts the equivalent of a "band aid" on our border patrol problem. The world already hates us. So I say, leave them alone and fix the problems you can fix. Protect our people from the thugs that live in that shithole known as Mexico.
Talk to me Americans ... are you with me??

Im pissed about him not bringing troops home. Im pissed about escalating the war. Im pissed that ten years after the 9/11 attack that our border patrol hasnt changed.

What can I say Rev.... I agree with a lot of what you write brother.

Quote:What can I say Rev.... I agree with a lot of what you write brother.

Because I hang center on many things, other things I hang left. I try to avoid extremism. Sometimes for the moment I may get caught up in it, but I find myself swinging back center wise again. I dispise extreme left and right. I also find myself agreeing with some of the left and not much of the right.

Maybe you should swing more to the center as well if you like what and how I say political things. Not all centrist types are mindless sheep. We think about who we vote for before we vote for them. Personally, I thought I was voting for a moderate when I voted Obama. It turns out he is center right, plutocratic, cleptocratic, corporatistic, and everything I expected from the blue dog Democrats. I honestly cant see where the Republicans are opposed to him other than his race and his political party affiliation. Obama is a moderate Republican in my book.

Me? Im a Teddy Roosevelt Progressive. Im a Liberal with a gun. I'm a centrist with a social conscious. I'm a Bull Moose Idependant who wishes a Bull Moose party existed nationally and locally for him to vote for.

(April 18, 2011 at 10:58 pm)reverendjeremiah Wrote:

Quote:What can I say Rev.... I agree with a lot of what you write brother.

Because I hang center on many things, other things I hang left. I try to avoid extremism. Sometimes for the moment I may get caught up in it, but I find myself swinging back center wise again. I dispise extreme left and right. I also find myself agreeing with some of the left and not much of the right.

Maybe you should swing more to the center as well if you like what and how I say political things. Not all centrist types are mindless sheep. We think about who we vote for before we vote for them. Personally, I thought I was voting for a moderate when I voted Obama. It turns out he is center right, plutocratic, cleptocratic, corporatistic, and everything I expected from the blue dog Democrats. I honestly cant see where the Republicans are opposed to him other than his race and his political party affiliation. Obama is a moderate Republican in my book.

Me? Im a Teddy Roosevelt Progressive. Im a Liberal with a gun. I'm a centrist with a social conscious. I'm a Bull Moose Idependant who wishes a Bull Moose party existed nationally and locally for him to vote for.

On occasion I do find myself overly aggressive ... not necessarily wrong, but not necessarily open-minded either - but I'd like to think only for the moment. I claim no political party because I despise politicians as a whole. I think they have proven themselves to be gutless liars time and time and time again. That being said - I always try to maintain a trace amount of hope for a society I have no faith in. As fucked up as it may be, this is the only country I have to call home and I do love it. I think it's our duty to at least attempt to improve it. Obviously this is sometimes where the problem begins because so many of us have very different ideas about what that exactly entails.

Quote:On occasion I do find myself overly aggressive ... not necessarily wrong, but not necessarily open-minded either - but I'd like to think only for the moment. I claim no political party because I despise politicians as a whole. I think they have proven themselves to be gutless liars time and time and time again. That being said - I always try to maintain a trace amount of hope for a society I have no faith in. As fucked up as it may be, this is the only country I have to call home and I do love it. I think it's our duty to at least attempt to improve it. Obviously this is sometimes where the problem begins because so many of us have very different ideas about what that exactly entails.

Welcome to the absurdity of politics. Good luck on finding ANY political party that fits your system of politics. I have searched for over a decade and found Teddy Roosevelt to reflect mine, but even then there are some differences. I like the Roosevelts (both), and I align with them on many things. I dispise any kind of prohibition, even though I understand they were doing it to bust the saloon/politician bosses. It wound up creating more criminals, just like modern prohibition is creating more criminals by the hundreds every day. I know what you are saying. Its hard to have faith in a constitutional Republic such as ours, but I still feel a healthy amount of national pride and accomplishment. Im a realistic liberal. I think the world without borders is a great concept to strive for, but I also think it is going to take much more time to create it. Sharing borders with Saudi Arabia, Afghanistan and (UGH) Somalia really doesnt appeal to me right now. Sharing borders with the "Dons" over in Mexico doesnt appeal to me as well. I could write a book on my political beliefs right now.

I'm an uninvolved outsider,and really don't care a whole lot about US domestic issues, unless they effect my country.

Seems to me the arguments in this thread about open borders is a strawman. The murders mentioned seem to be about the drug cartels (professional criminals) getting their panties in a bunch. I don't see what that has to with the poor bastards sneaking across the borders hoping for a better life.

I do not support open borders between countries*,but I do support realistic and humane policies. Seems to be hard balance,and one the US has not yet mastered. (neither has Australia)



*the impression I get is the open border policy in the EU has been an unmitigated disaster.

Padraic Wrote:Seems to me the arguments in this thread about open borders is a strawman.

- VS -

Padraic Wrote:I don't see what that has to with the poor bastards sneaking across the borders hoping for a better life.

Because everyone who sneaks across our borders are poor bastards hoping for a better life.

Thanks for adding to the Strawmen.