(May 31, 2016 at 12:16 am)SteelCurtain Wrote:

(May 31, 2016 at 12:08 am)Clueless Morgan Wrote: Did anyone else think that Sam's family home was gigantic? like overly large?

Yeah, Horn Hill is the seat of a marcher lord. That sprawling mediterranean castle was a tad too large. I imagine that was to show the 'importance' and grandeur of Lord Randyll Tarly.

It looks large enough to rival the Red Keep in size :/ Could have used a bit of scaling down I thought - a little too grand-looking IMO but... wuhyagonnado?

(May 31, 2016 at 9:56 am)Homeless Nutter Wrote:

(May 31, 2016 at 9:10 am)pocaracas Wrote: Joffrey's fucked up, yes... but I think Cersei had more to gain from Bran's death and Tyrion's involvement in that death.

That's debatable. Even if Bran lived (which seemed unlikely at the time), came out of his coma AND remembered what happened - it would still be just a word of a feverish child, against the word of a queen and her brother.  Had an assassin been caught and interrogated - his confession might prove much more troublesome. Joffrey would be much more likely to disregard potential consequences, because he was just a dumb, sadistic kid, trying to play king.

And again - Cersei had more to gain from Ned Stark's death, than Joffrey, because Stark knew about illegitimacy of her children. But she agreed to let him join the Watch, where he could still potentially share this knowledge. As far as Joffrey was concerned - Ned was defeated and his claims were untrue and unsubstantiated, there was little to gain from the man's death, at this point. But he wanted to kill somebody, I guess, to show off and test his power - and we know how it played out.

Personally I'm inclined to apply Hanlon's Razor: Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity.

I'm not sure I buy that Joffrey was behind the attack on Bran - it doesn't make sense to me. He's a little shit, to be sure, but where would his motive have been? At that point Bran was just an injured kid to him and he didn't know about his parentage so there's no reason for him to defend Cersei and Jaime from rumors or anything.

And yes, Ned knew about Cersei and Jaime and that Joffrey was their child, not Roberts, but he didn't know that when Bran was attacked at Winterfell, he found all that out long after the fact in King's Landing.

(May 31, 2016 at 5:54 am)SteelCurtain Wrote: I am also thinking that the Three Eyed Raven is/was Bran. It's all a loop.

Hadn't heard that one.  Interesting idea .. but how did he get into that tree as an old man so long before he was born.  Wait .. my head hurts .. okay, but go slow.

(May 31, 2016 at 5:54 am)SteelCurtain Wrote: I am also thinking that the Three Eyed Raven is/was Bran. It's all a loop.

You mean that the old man is the future Bran, come back to guide him?

Also. . . the scene explaining why Hodor says Hodor all the time was pretty compelling. . . but the thing I don't get is in the young-Hodor scene, there's no door for him to have to hold.  So it looks like the screams of hold the door passed to Brand in his dream state, and that yhoung Hodor somehow picked up on it.  So yes, a big freaking loop indeed.

Did I miss something?

(May 31, 2016 at 11:12 am)Clueless Morgan Wrote: I'm not sure I buy that Joffrey was behind the attack on Bran - it doesn't make sense to me.  He's a little shit, to be sure, but where would his motive have been?  At that point Bran was just an injured kid to him and he didn't know about his parentage so there's no reason for him to defend Cersei and Jaime from rumors or anything.[...]

What was Joffrey's motive, when he cut open a pregnant cat, to get the kittens out (in the book, anyway)?
What was Joffrey's motive for torturing prostitutes and killing at least one?
What was the motive for publicly torturing Sansa?
What was his motive for killing Ned Stark?

Joffrey was a spoiled, sadistic little psychopath. He was going to be the next king and he was trying to play king, while indulging his own fascination with violence. He also hated weakness, admired ruthlessness of people like Tywin and the Hound and had plenty of opportunities to hear adults - like Cersei - express the sentiment, that it would be better for Bran to die, rather than live as a "cripple" (theirs is a harsh medieval-like culture - handicapped people are something of a burden). Also - the fuss around Bran and the grieving process, prolonged by the boy's uncertain fate was clearly a nuisance to him, as it put a stop to most of his fun.

He probably hated Tyrion for similar reasons - for being a "half-man", a freak, who killed his grandmother and brought shame and ridicule on the house, by the sheer fact of being a dwarf, not to mention his drinking and whoring. Worse yet - Tyrion used his intellect (and sometimes his hand) to humiliate Joffrey seemingly at every opportunity.

Yeah - in his screwed up little mind - Joffrey had plenty of reasons to want Bran dead (as an act of ill-conceived "mercy" and a responsibility of a "strong ruler" to make difficult decisions for his subjects) and Tyrion blamed for it, then hopefully either executed, locked up, or sent to the Wall.

Cersei at that point didn't have any particular reasons to want Tyrion eliminated, beyond those Joffrey had. She started scheming against him, when he was made the acting hand of the king and started messing around - at least in her mind, although not entirely - with her power and most importantly - her kids. She definitely wanted Bran to die, but as I mentioned before - the risk of getting involved would be very high and it didn't look like the boy was going to make it anyway.

But, hey - you don't have to take it from me. In the books both Tyrion and Jamie come to similar conclusions.

Those questions make me think of the tale Tyrion told when reminiscing with his brother in captivity, awaiting his trial.

Bran isn't anyone but himself. He can't physically travel in time, he can only see it and slightly connect with people within it, and we can be sure he won't be attempting the latter any time soon. Besides, that kind of thing would open up a can of worms, plotwise, that the show producers would be wise to stay away from. And I don't think that they aren't.

(May 31, 2016 at 12:14 pm)Whateverist the White Wrote:

(May 31, 2016 at 5:54 am)SteelCurtain Wrote: I am also thinking that the Three Eyed Raven is/was Bran. It's all a loop.

Hadn't heard that one.  Interesting idea .. but how did he get into that tree as an old man so long before he was born.  Wait .. my head hurts .. okay, but go slow.

Well, my question would be - does that mean Bran is also Brynden Rivers, who's supposed to have become the three eyed crow, the last greenseer. And if Lord Bloodraven is in fact Bran, traveling back in time  - why does he fight against Robert's rebellion? 

Unless... Bran time-travels into the past and wargs "permanently" into Brynden Rivers, at some point after the rebellion and uses him merely as some sort of a vessel, to live in the past, preparing for whatever winter's about to bring and to close the time-loop, when the time comes, by teaching his younger self and instructing himself (Bran) to become...uhm... himself (Brynden)...

Ouch! You're making it worse.

(May 31, 2016 at 12:45 pm)Homeless Nutter Wrote: Cersei at that point didn't have any particular reasons to want Tyrion eliminated, beyond those Joffrey had.

WUT?!
She's NEVER forgiven Tyrion for Killing her mother.
All her life, she's had a festering hate for the imp.

If that's not reason enough, I don't know what may be...
And Jaime agreeing with Tyrion on blaming Joffrey... well... Jaime had an interest in silencing Bran, too...

(May 30, 2016 at 11:28 pm)SteelCurtain Wrote:

(May 30, 2016 at 11:20 pm)Maelstrom Wrote: Major spoiler, if the show decides to follow the books:

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One of the dragons is stolen by a different faction, cannot remember which one, that also wants the throne

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That would have happened far before now though. That happens in Qarth when the Warlocks stole her dragons and hid them in the House of the Undying. I think they actually showed this in the series.

In the books, Quentin Martell plays the role that Tyrion plays with the dragons in Mereen.

Oh.

Yeah, the trouble with the "Bran = 3 Eyed Crow" theory is that the Three-Eyed Crow is Brynden Rivers / Bloodraven, who is most definitely an entire other person