(May 29, 2016 at 7:11 am)Irrational Wrote: When someone throws at you the question "Is it the absolute truth that truth is relative?", how do you respond to that?

Are you absolutely sure there are no absolutes.

Very very smart question.

I believe that truth is relative for us. Relative to what? Our perceptions.

For example,
*we see a rock.
*however it is through our subjective lens(sensory perceptions) that we view this rock.
*ie, we can't objectively know whether our subjective perception of a rock is objective.

To answer the question "Do you believe that it is the objective truth that the truth is subjective" I'll have to break down the question to what it actually means.

This is what they question translates to, "Okay, so you say that the truth is subjective, ie,you can't be sure how you perceive that rock is objectively. But are you 100% sure that how you subjectively perceive that rock is not objectively?"

The question is this, we know that how we perceive a rock is through our subjective perception, but are we 100% sure that this subjective perception is not objective?

My answer is No.

We have evidence that different animals perceive things differently, we have evidence that we as humans perceive things differently than other animals, this is evidence that how we view things might not be objectively, however this is not evidence that how we perceive is objectively subjective because our subjective perceptions -could - be objective. For all we know we -might - be perceiving objectively but there IS also evidence that our perception might be subjective.

The question in reality is asking us to prove a negative that's why answering it seems hard.

(I hope I didn't make my explanation hard to grasp, if you have any doubts regarding my answer feel free to ask.)

(June 1, 2016 at 1:41 am)pool the great Wrote: Very very smart question.

I believe that truth is relative for us. Relative to what? Our perceptions.

For example,  
*we see a rock.
*however it is through our subjective lens(sensory perceptions) that we view this rock.
*ie, we can't objectively know whether our subjective perception of a rock is objective.

To answer the question "Do you believe that it is the objective truth that the truth is subjective" I'll have to break down the question to what it actually means.

This is what they question translates to, "Okay, so you say that the truth is subjective, ie,you can't be sure how you perceive that rock is objectively. But are you 100% sure that how you subjectively perceive that rock is not objectively?"  

The question is this,  we know that how we perceive a rock is through our subjective perception, but are we 100% sure that this subjective perception is not objective?  

My answer is No.

We have evidence that different animals perceive things differently, we have evidence that we as humans perceive things differently than other animals, this is evidence that how we view things might not be objectively, however this is not evidence that how we perceive is objectively subjective because our subjective perceptions -could - be objective. For all we know we -might - be perceiving objectively but there IS also evidence that our perception might be subjective.

The question in reality is asking us to prove a negative that's why answering it seems hard.

(I hope I didn't make my explanation hard to grasp, if you have any doubts regarding my answer feel free to ask.)

Great. Now what is truth?

(June 1, 2016 at 2:58 am)Ignorant Wrote:

(June 1, 2016 at 1:41 am)pool the great Wrote: Very very smart question.

I believe that truth is relative for us. Relative to what? Our perceptions.

For example,  
*we see a rock.
*however it is through our subjective lens(sensory perceptions) that we view this rock.
*ie, we can't objectively know whether our subjective perception of a rock is objective.

To answer the question "Do you believe that it is the objective truth that the truth is subjective" I'll have to break down the question to what it actually means.

This is what they question translates to, "Okay, so you say that the truth is subjective, ie,you can't be sure how you perceive that rock is objectively. But are you 100% sure that how you subjectively perceive that rock is not objectively?"  

The question is this,  we know that how we perceive a rock is through our subjective perception, but are we 100% sure that this subjective perception is not objective?  

My answer is No.

We have evidence that different animals perceive things differently, we have evidence that we as humans perceive things differently than other animals, this is evidence that how we view things might not be objectively, however this is not evidence that how we perceive is objectively subjective because our subjective perceptions -could - be objective. For all we know we -might - be perceiving objectively but there IS also evidence that our perception might be subjective.

The question in reality is asking us to prove a negative that's why answering it seems hard.

(I hope I didn't make my explanation hard to grasp, if you have any doubts regarding my answer feel free to ask.)

Great. Now what is truth?

Do you mean subjective or objective truth?

Truth is the silent harmony, pattering on your window, urging you to wake up.

(June 1, 2016 at 3:24 am)pool the great Wrote:

(June 1, 2016 at 2:58 am)Ignorant Wrote: Great. Now what is truth?

Do you mean subjective or objective truth?

Well could you describe what you mean by truth, subjective truth, and objective truth?

Truth is the mole you whacked that just keeps popping up again.

(June 1, 2016 at 3:26 am)Ignorant Wrote:

(June 1, 2016 at 3:24 am)pool the great Wrote: Do you mean subjective or objective truth?

Well could you describe what you mean by truth, subjective truth, and objective truth?

Quote:truth is a generally accepted outcome or reasoning while fact is a proven truth...in other words every Fact is True but not all Truths are facts. Example 1+1=2 is a fact (only one result proven truth), but 2=1+1 is true but not fact(infinite result as 2=1x2,2=6-4,2=2+0 to infinity.

(June 1, 2016 at 3:45 am)pool the great Wrote:

(June 1, 2016 at 3:26 am)Ignorant Wrote: Well could you describe what you mean by truth, subjective truth, and objective truth?

Quote:truth is a generally accepted outcome or reasoning while fact is a proven truth...in other words every Fact is True but not all Truths are facts. Example 1+1=2 is a fact (only one result proven truth), but 2=1+1 is true but not fact(infinite result as 2=1x2,2=6-4,2=2+0 to infinity.

So it is not factual that 2 is 1 + 1? I am confused... Why can't it be factual while simultaneously FACTUAL that 2 is 1 x 2?

1+1 = 2.

By doing the operation addition with two 1's we must get 2.
This is fact because it is true in all cases.

2 = 1+1

To get the result 2 we must add 1 with 1.
This is neither a fact nor a truth.

To get the result 2 we can add 1 with 1.
This is a truth but not a fact because there are contradictories.

An example of a case in which that statement is false:
2 = 1x2

The distinguishing fact I believe is the "must".
You must get 2 if you add 1 with 1.
You can get the result 2 by adding 1 and 1.
(there is no must here)
You can get the result 2 by adding 2 and 0. Etc