(June 12, 2016 at 12:04 pm)KUSA Wrote: The only reason anyone would hate a gay person is because of a religious influence. There can be no other reason. If there is I would like someone to point it out.

I agree

Yes as I'm sure someone will point out, "but there's non-religious people who don't agree with homosexuality!"



They still get their values as a legacy of 2000 years of mental conditioning from The Abrahamic faiths. If you have vehemently anti-gay attitudes prevailent within a society because of religion, they're not going to suddenly disappear over night, or even within one generation, just because religious influence declines. It's taken decades, basically 3 generations, since most Western countries legalised homosexulaity for LGBT rights to even get to this stage, and we still have people killing us.

And sure, most societies pre-Christian or pre-Islam were not really "loud and proud" with gay rights, but it was a relatively better situation for homosexuals in most societies before.

(June 12, 2016 at 12:08 pm)LastPoet Wrote: KUSA, we used to have a very homophobic atheist around the boards. He claimed to be unnatural to be gay yada, yada, yada. Fortunately, he stopped posting on his own.

I am an Atheist but I still have relics of religious programming in my head. I have to think twice about some things because of it.

How do you know the person you referenced did not have leftover brainwashing from some religion?

Nunnamy, but I wonder who this was now.

(June 12, 2016 at 11:17 am)Yeauxleaux Wrote: I'm wondering how the fuck did an apparently "lone" gunman manage to storm a nightclub full of people?

Like surely wouldn't everyone just pounce on him or sneak up behind him and smash a bottle over his head or something?

Something seems off to me. This doesn't seem like something a lone gunman could pull off, at least without low key help.

I imagine he used a automatic rifle like AR-15 or AK-47. At close range, assault rifle bullets will over penetrate through several bodies before the bullet come to full stop even if it hits bone. So in a close packed night club, one could achieve very large amount of casaulty to rounds fired ratio as many bullet will strike multiple victims.

Also, assault rifle munitions are designed to tumble one it enter flesh instead of going straight through in order to carve very gruesome internal wound paths, so even flesh wounds can create very large amount of tissue damage, leading to very severe bleeding.

Given it took the cops 3 hours to get into the nightclub, I image many people who suffered otherwise non fatal wounds would have bled out before help arrived.

I dunno. I'm not saying it's impossible, but here are a few things that strike me as odd:

1) He tweets these out frequently.

2) The image appears to be custom made, i.e. its designed by someone, rather than just a text quote.

3) It was tweeted on a Sunday morning. I doubt he got up, asked his design team to make it, and then tweeted it out. More likely this was planned and would have always been tweeted today.

4) If he's like most politicians, he probably doesn't actually tweet things himself but has someone else do it. He might even have things like this automatically tweet out.

Just trying to give him the benefit of the doubt.

I was just going to post about this, since it happened not far away from where I live here in Florida.

I haven't read through this thread but I saw just a blurb on tv that said up to 50 dead and 52 more injured. I immediately turned off the tv and will stay off my favorite news outlets and Facebook until this drops out of the news cycle.
The aftermath is SO predictable - #prayersforthevictims or some cute rhyming hashtag - as if that will help anything.
People will insist on not uttering the name of or talking about the perpetrator - as if that will help anything.
We'll undoubtedly learn that the killer bought his entire arsenal legally.
And the NRA and their friends will arrogantly stay silent about the whole thing as they believe any debate about gun control is over and the matter doesn't bear discussion.

On the plus side, I'll get caught up on a few novels I'm reading by staying off the news and social media.

(June 12, 2016 at 12:13 pm)KUSA Wrote: I am an Atheist but I still have relics of religious programming in my head. I have to think twice about some things because of it.

How do you know the person you referenced did not have leftover brainwashing from some religion?

We had lenghty discussions AF style with him. He claim he didn't.

Shit, the things I remember

Just woke up to this news. Horrible. Don't know what to say.

Boru

(June 12, 2016 at 9:57 am)AtlasS33 Wrote: Just don't generalize on all Muslims.
And start to blame Saudi Arabia and Wahhabism for a change.

And remember: I don't owe nobody an apology for the acts of maniacs.
And if this was related to ISIS, then I'll be very very surprised anzzzzzzzzzzzz zzzzz zzzzz.....

Did you know that the CIA cleared Saudi Arabia's name just got cleared yesterday from 9/11 ??

http://english.aawsat.com/2016/06/articl...11-attacks

http://edition.cnn.com/2016/06/12/politi...abia-9-11/

I smell shit.

Atlas nobody should blame you the individual no. But there are words, in the Quran others do use to justify violence. Just like a Liberal Christian can say "I don't murder abortion doctors" still does not change that another Christian was motivated by words in the Bible.

But in the case of this horrible event I really don't care if it had been a Christian homophobe, because we have had gays murdered by Christians.

What I do care about is the "motive" being used as a distraction. I have pointed out other mass shootings where the motive was Christian bigotry, and other shootings where it was a mentally ill person. Regardless of motive what they all had in common was easy access to weapons.

There is no polite way to tell anyone of any religion that that same book they use to justify peace regardless, is still the same book someone else might use to justify violence. But this is what religions do, allow humans to be distracted by the fact we are not a separate species.

In this case of American gun deaths, I blame the gun makers for selling fear, even religious fear. You always hear NRA supporters and their politicians say 'God Guns and Bibles". 

If you want to trace any problem in society to it's source follow the money. The problem with all types of gun deaths, even in the home such as domestic murder, suicide and accidental is because of one industry putting profits above human rights.