Dear Moderate Muslims,


Where is Allah?

I don't want you to apologize for the actions of others. You are not omnipotent or omniscient. You don't hear prayers and watch over all of us. You are not a personal god who can speak with authority and get radicals to stop killing, simply by telling them to with a booming voice from the sky.

Shouldn't we hold the gods we worship to the same moral standards that we hold one another to?
If any responsible parent saw their children stabbing each other in a fight over a toy, that parent should stop the children, discipline them immediately (not later) and take the toy away. Why won't your god take action on how his followers fight over religion?

If any responsible general heard that his soldiers were committing atrocities in his name, that general would immediately take action to stop his soldiers and discipline them immediately (not later). A general who did nothing would be a war criminal. Why won't your god take action to stop those who are murdering in his name?

With increased power comes increased responsibility. Your god is more capable than any mortal parent or mortal general. Why won't he take any action?

Please be prepared to do better than the, speaking frankly, feeble excuses that the faithful usually offer for their absentee heavenly father. Theodicies like "it's a test", "mysterious ways" and "free will" are utterly unconvincing in the face of so much death and suffering.

In truth, there are only three explanations. Either your god delights in the sight of people killing in his name (he's evil) or he feels no need to stop people from killing in his name (he's negligent) or can't stop the extremists because he doesn't exist.

I'm not asking you to apologize for your religion. I am asking you to ask why your god will do nothing and rethink whether that god is worthy of worship or is even "up there" at all.

Sincerely,
A skeptic of religion.

Same as with christians. Excercise in futility. But whatever rocks your boat.

(June 12, 2016 at 2:56 pm)abaris Wrote: Same as with christians. 

Sure.

Quote:Excercise in futility. But whatever rocks your boat.

I don't know. Judging by poll numbers, it seems to be working with the Christians. In another generation, Jesus will be as politically relevant in America as Zeus. This is not because we were nice to the moderate Christians but because we've been more strident in our mocking and ridicule and criticism of Christianity. 

Also, I'd like to know what your strategy is. Be nicer to the moderates and hope they come to the rescue? We've been doing that for almost 15 years now. How's that working for us?

(June 12, 2016 at 3:48 pm)YahwehIsTheWay Wrote:

(June 12, 2016 at 2:56 pm)abaris Wrote: Same as with christians. 

Sure.

Quote:Excercise in futility. But whatever rocks your boat.

I don't know. Judging by poll numbers, it seems to be working with the Christians. In another generation, Jesus will be as politically relevant in America as Zeus. This is not because we were nice to the moderate Christians but because we've been more strident in our mocking and ridicule and criticism of Christianity. 

Also, I'd like to know what your strategy is. Be nicer to the moderates and hope they come to the rescue? We've been doing that for almost 15 years now. How's that working for us?

Islamic martyrs have an incentive that Christians don't have.  They get to intercede for 70 of their family members on Judgment Day when they face Allah.  So by killing infidels in the name of Allah they might be able to save up to 70 family members from hell.  It's the perfect death cult and everybody benefits.  So why would moderates want to change it?

(June 12, 2016 at 3:48 pm)YahwehIsTheWay Wrote: Also, I'd like to know what your strategy is. Be nicer to the moderates and hope they come to the rescue? We've been doing that for almost 15 years now. How's that working for us?

I'm not an atheist soldier, you know. If someone feels comfortable believing, I'm the last one trying to convert them. I'm only against radicals, all the others don't concern me as much as a fly buzzing around my face.

So, there is no strategy, as far as moderates are concerned.

A moderate will give you 500 lashes instead of the specified 1,000 lashes.

Apparently the British are looking into this 'moderate' muslim claim.... with limited success.

http://www.spectator.co.uk/2016/04/how-m...e-muslims/

Quote:How moderate are moderate Muslims?

There is an ocean between what British Muslims believe and what the rest of us believe

Quote:For a start, there was the fallout from Trevor Phillips’s excellent film about Islam in Britain, in which he reported, via an ICM poll, that two thirds of British Muslims would refuse to grass on a fellow Muslim, no matter how much ricin he was storing in his lock-up. And the added worry that virtually none share our outlook on life, don’t want to integrate and possess views about Jewish people which Ernst Röhm would have thought a bit gamey.

The problem is religion.  Period.

(June 12, 2016 at 4:04 pm)abaris Wrote:

(June 12, 2016 at 3:48 pm)YahwehIsTheWay Wrote: Also, I'd like to know what your strategy is. Be nicer to the moderates and hope they come to the rescue? We've been doing that for almost 15 years now. How's that working for us?

I'm not an atheist soldier, you know. If someone feels comfortable believing, I'm the last one trying to convert them. I'm only against radicals, all the others don't concern me as much as a fly buzzing around my face.

So, there is no strategy, as far as moderates are concerned.

Then there's no strategy at all.

Without the moderates, there would be no Islam. There would only be a cult compound of a small number of nutcases, akin to the Davidians or the Jim Jones following. 

The moderates may not support terrorism directly but they enable it indirectly. You're not going to reach the radicals. They're mentally gone. It's the moderates who need to be persuaded to abandon religion.

(June 12, 2016 at 4:25 pm)Minimalist Wrote: Apparently the British are looking into this 'moderate' muslim claim.... with limited success.

http://www.spectator.co.uk/2016/04/how-m...e-muslims/

Quote:How moderate are moderate Muslims?

There is an ocean between what British Muslims believe and what the rest of us believe

Quote:For a start, there was the fallout from Trevor Phillips’s excellent film about Islam in Britain, in which he reported, via an ICM poll, that two thirds of British Muslims would refuse to grass on a fellow Muslim, no matter how much ricin he was storing in his lock-up. And the added worry that virtually none share our outlook on life, don’t want to integrate and possess views about Jewish people which Ernst Röhm would have thought a bit gamey.

The problem is religion.  Period.

Some religions are more dangerous than others. Christianity, for all it's flaws, has at least an other-worldly aspect going for it. By this, I mean while you can have extreme Christians, there is at least a potential for moderates to support a secular and free society. Their "kingdom" is in "a higher place". Islam is about this world. It was founded by a warlord, not an other-worldly hippy (the JNE issue put aside for the sake of argument). 

This is why so many Muslims support Sharia, even among moderates, while so few Christians support Dominionism, even among fundies.

(June 12, 2016 at 4:41 pm)YahwehIsTheWay Wrote: Then there's no strategy at all.

Without the moderates, there would be no Islam. There would only be a cult compound of a small number of nutcases, akin to the Davidians or the Jim Jones following. 

Correct, and I never gave a shit about moderate religious persons. If you feel like fighting, by all means, saddle up Rosinante. I've got bigger fish to fry. Such as following my interests. As I keep saying, I'm not atheism. Atheism is just my absence of belief.

If you looked into a mirror with opened eyes, maybe you would see what you suppose to be fighting. The only difference being the opposing field post number.