(June 16, 2016 at 2:08 pm)MysticKnight Wrote:

(June 16, 2016 at 2:07 pm)Losty Wrote: And why should we accept his favor with gratitude?

Because it's the best thing we can receive, with the best possible intention.

Why is it the best thing we can receive? How do you know it is with the best possible intention.

(June 16, 2016 at 2:20 pm)MysticKnight Wrote: God has everything we love for or value in anything. He has all that.

You don't get to determine that for -me-, Mystic....do you?  I can just tell you plainly that your god doesn't and that's the end of that and I'm not sure how you could possibly maintain otherwise. That's the depth to which you've convinced yourself intellectually? One measley inch, measured only as far as your own preferences.

(June 16, 2016 at 2:17 pm)Jörmungandr Wrote:

(June 16, 2016 at 2:00 pm)MysticKnight Wrote: You can take that dive, it's possible, but usually, first you should intellectually convince yourself that the Creator is being that is to be loved and valued specially in  a way that no one else should be. After that, it's all about pushing and disciplining your heart with continuous wisdom, repentance, and acts of devotion, till it loves God in a way that is thankful and appreciative of both God and the light of God in creation (ie. appreciating the good from people as well).  You have to teach to guard against the darkness.

So first you convince yourself that you should love, and then you brainwash yourself into actually feeling love.  Is that it?

Look and reflect, then believe. That's all it is. Faith is a result of reflection of obvious spiritual truths.

Quote:Pretty words, but what do they mean?

It means to embrace his weapon and the armies of intelligence, it's to wear the ring of Sulaiman, the crown jewel and reign over your soul with that. It's to repel the darkness and dark magic with full force of God's Name and take the marks of his praise.

To make God and his Messenger and the Guides towards the light, the master of our souls.

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(June 16, 2016 at 2:00 pm)MysticKnight Wrote: To love God is to submit to him and no longer struggle against his command which is a light that extends to you. It's a struggle only due the effects of dark magic from Satan and his forces on the heart. Where it not for him, I think it would be very improbable a human values anything on par with the Beautiful One who contains all praise

But one day you have to chose, do you want to stick to the false identity created by Satan or are you ready to become light and beauty from God, heighten yourself by the highness of God that Ali use to heighten himself by.

Yeah.... this never happened.  Believe and if you don't believe it's because magic is causing you to be confused?  Maybe magic is causing you to think things about God that are not true?  How would you know?  How do you tell the difference between dark magic and the light?

These are important questions. The question is what is true belief? To me it's knowledge. And what is knowledge. It's justified perception of truth. Genuine belief is submission to what we perceive to be true. Some people trick themselves that they are believers, but this besides the point.

The light and darkness are distinct, it's only when we eat of everything, clean and unclean, that they become hard to distinguish.

We are to remember God's holy names, and incline to guarding against the darkness and guard at against the wrath of God. With this inclination, we ought to pray that God helps us distinguish.

If we don't believe in God, there is no harm in asking an imaginary being to help us. Who knows, it might?

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(June 16, 2016 at 2:00 pm)MysticKnight Wrote: You have to make that choice, and it's spiritual choice.  We are constantly in war within ourselves, and will and who we become, there is responsibility in that.

I thought you said that you begin by intellectually convincing oneself that loving God is the right choice.  What do you make that choice, to convince oneself, based upon?

On reality of who you are and what your linked to and the various perceptions as a human you always had that prove a Creator and God. Perceptions that you always knew were true.

Embracing the weapons and armies....dude, what sect did you throw your chips in with, again? Is there a public face or a website or a name that I can look up to identify where/who this all comes from?

(June 16, 2016 at 1:51 pm)Jörmungandr Wrote:

(June 16, 2016 at 8:57 am)ChadWooters Wrote: Can someone love Truth? Can someone love Justice? Can someone love Beauty and Mercy? If so that it should not be inconceivable to love the source of those transpersonal values.

Do we mean that they literally love truth or justice, or is this not merely figurative language?  That the person acts as if enamored with it?

Regardless of whether it's figurative or not, do you think loving such is a choice?

Literally or figuratively? I don’t know really. What I can say is this. Beautiful things exemplify beauty. Just and merciful people exemplify justice and mercy. To love truth is to participate in it. I’m sure you can sense the Neo-Platonic implications of what I am saying. The standard objections of skeptics apply.

As to whether one can chose to love, I say the distinction between instinct and reason and how they inform each other applies. While someone may be reflexively inclined toward harmful desires, the cultivation of virtue can deliberately direct those inclinations towards their proper objects. For example, someone inclined to wrath can turn their volatile nature into defending the vulnerable from oppression. As the habits of virtue take hold, I believe, the desires for evil and falsity drop away and people begin to long for what is beautiful, good, and true.

(June 16, 2016 at 2:21 pm)Losty Wrote:

(June 16, 2016 at 2:08 pm)MysticKnight Wrote: Because it's the best thing we can receive, with the best possible intention.

Why is it the best thing we can receive? How do you know it is with the best possible intention.

Me talking about it is not going to reveal it. I can talk all poetic, but we know you guys will dismiss and mock.

It's the best possible favour. What it is, is for you to find out and remember. 

Something tells me you already know what it is. You just want me to talk about things and then dismiss it by in inability to convey it.

(June 16, 2016 at 2:42 pm)MysticKnight Wrote:

(June 16, 2016 at 2:21 pm)Losty Wrote: Why is it the best thing we can receive? How do you know it is with the best possible intention.

Me talking about it is not going to reveal it. I can talk all poetic, but we know you guys will dismiss and mock.

It's the best possible favour. What it is, is for you to find out and remember. 

Something tells me you already know what it is. You just want me to talk about things and then dismiss it by in inability to convey it.

I regret to inform you that I do not know what you mean at all. I was religious for a long time. I believed to best of my ability. My faith was as strong as it could be. I found no favors there. Only lonliness. It couldn't possibly be any better than that from here on out, because I don't believe or have faith. If I tried to it would only be a lie. I don't need to be saved. I'm actually doing very well. I've never been happier than I am now.

(June 16, 2016 at 2:55 pm)Losty Wrote:

(June 16, 2016 at 2:42 pm)MysticKnight Wrote: Me talking about it is not going to reveal it. I can talk all poetic, but we know you guys will dismiss and mock.

It's the best possible favour. What it is, is for you to find out and remember. 

Something tells me you already know what it is. You just want me to talk about things and then dismiss it by in inability to convey it.

I regret to inform you that I do not know what you mean at all. I was religious for a long time. I believed to best of my ability. My faith was as strong as it could be. I found no favors there. Only lonliness. It couldn't possibly be any better than that from here on out, because I don't believe or have faith. If I tried to it would only be a lie. I don't need to be saved. I'm actually doing very well. I've never been happier than I am now.

Well I'm glad you are doing very well and are happy.

(June 16, 2016 at 2:30 pm)MysticKnight Wrote:

(June 16, 2016 at 2:17 pm)Jörmungandr Wrote: So first you convince yourself that you should love, and then you brainwash yourself into actually feeling love.  Is that it?

Look and reflect, then believe. That's all it is. Faith is a result of reflection of obvious spiritual truths.

I used to have periods in my life lasting a few weeks during which time spiritual themes would take on much greater significance than they normally did. I say this not to discount your experience but to point out that the perception of spiritual themes varies from person to person. You seem to overlook this fact in your posturing about obvious spiritual truths. What is obvious to you may not be so to another, and I don't think it has to do with what they are eating.

What I will say is that for most of my 50 years, I believed that there were people who were hunting for me to try and kill me. This truth seemed 'obviously' true to me prior to my getting on medication. Again, I say this not to imply that your belief in God is delusional, but rather to point out that ones such as you and I need to take care in how hard we lean on what seems 'obvious' to us. Especially if others aren't seeing the same thing.

(June 16, 2016 at 2:30 pm)MysticKnight Wrote:

(June 16, 2016 at 2:17 pm)Jörmungandr Wrote: Yeah.... this never happened.  Believe and if you don't believe it's because magic is causing you to be confused?  Maybe magic is causing you to think things about God that are not true?  How would you know?  How do you tell the difference between dark magic and the light?

These are important questions. The question is what is true belief? To me it's knowledge. And what is knowledge. It's justified perception of truth. Genuine belief is submission to what we perceive to be true. Some people trick themselves that they are believers, but this besides the point.

The light and darkness are distinct, it's only when we eat of everything, clean and unclean, that they become hard to distinguish.

We are to remember God's holy names, and incline to guarding against the darkness and guard at against the wrath of God. With this inclination, we ought to pray that God helps us distinguish.

If we don't believe in God, there is no harm in asking an imaginary being to help us. Who knows, it might?

When we depend on voices that are not real, we begin a spiral in which we can become victims of our own subconscious.

(June 16, 2016 at 2:30 pm)MysticKnight Wrote:

(June 16, 2016 at 2:17 pm)Jörmungandr Wrote: I thought you said that you begin by intellectually convincing oneself that loving God is the right choice.  What do you make that choice, to convince oneself, based upon?

On reality of who you are and what your linked to and the various perceptions as a human you always had that prove a Creator and God. Perceptions that you always knew were true.

Yeah, well I don't have such perceptions. What's left in your bag of things which say I should choose to love God?

50 years?