In my experience Christians tend to state that their "Jesus" chose to allow the crusifiction and had the power to stop it?

Is that suicide or delusion? 

People do envoke suicide by willfully making a sudden threatening move when in the sights of police marksmen to knowingly end their own life ....

Personally I find that a cowards way out, as they could have ended their own life without involving others .... Apparently this "Jesus" character could have saved his own life with Woo as some other suicide victims could have saved their own life by not making a sudden move ....

Dog.

The modern equivalency is 'suicide by cop.'

(June 17, 2016 at 11:37 am)Minimalist Wrote: The modern equivalency is 'suicide by cop.'

LOL .. that was the phrase I was looking for  

If Jesus existed, he was most likely just a slightly deluded con-artist/preacher/cult leader, who over-reached himself, became inconvenient for the authorities and paid with his life. I don't think he meant to die any more than the protagonist of "The Life Of Brian" did. And just like Brian, he'd probably be pretty miffed to hear his supposed friends and followers calling his crucifixion a voluntary one. 

(June 17, 2016 at 11:50 am)Homeless Nutter Wrote: If Jesus existed, he was most likely just a slightly deluded con-artist/preacher/cult leader, who over-reached himself, became inconvenient for the authorities and paid with his life.  
 

I agree with you, but I suppose what disturbs me is that a religion sprang up on the back of what story tellers considered a suicide.

I have no personal issue with suicide, but when those making that choice involve others to make it fit their own agenda I find it distasteful ...

If this "Jesus" character wanted to kill himself for his imaginary "father" (in his delusion himself), why did he need to involve so many innocent bystanders?

https://youtu.be/NUHk2RSMCS8

I seem to remember a verse where Jesus asks Yahweh to "let this cup pass from me". So it wasn't that he wanted to do it. He was just doing what he was told. Like a suicide bomber that does that he does because he'll get 72 virgins afterwards. He could have gotten off, but that would make daddy unhappy. We all know what happens when daddy is unhappy.

(June 17, 2016 at 12:37 pm)Chad32 Wrote: I seem to remember a verse where Jesus asks Yahweh to "let this cup pass from me".  

As far as I can make out from the fairy tale is that there were many events leading up to his death where he knew different actions would have saved his life ... I have no problem with a character taking their own life, just that he involved so many others in his demise.

If he was so honorable and needed to die why not just jump off a cliff and leave everyone else out of it?

Jesus Christ may be compared to a situation where someone must be murdered in order for someone else to survive. 

For example a parent and a child.

Do you think the parent should be willing to be murdered to save their child ?

So, it probably wasn't a suicide at the time, but since his followers imbue him with godhood (including omniscience and omnipotence) it is a suicide since jesus saw it coming and could have stopped it but didn't and since his followers don't like the idea of a suicidal god being, they deny it was a suicide.

I'm starting to understand the roots of Mormonism . . . .