(April 24, 2011 at 2:24 am)theVOID Wrote: We're still insisting that Bachman is a Libertarian are we Rev? Do I need to pull out the chart again to make it clear she's on the opposite end of the social scale? It's like calling someone who is for healthcare and against gay marriage a progressive.

And she doesn't give a flying fuck what you think - the shitwits have adopted her.

As far as I'm concerned Republicolibertarianazi covers her very well....but it is kind of long to say.


http://www.libertarianrepublican.net/201...fully.html

Quote:Tea Party Congressional Caucus leader Rep. Michele Bachmann of Minnesota produces a video for Alaska voters, expressing her support for libertarian-leaning Republican Joe Miller.

Notice how they run all these ideas together? If Nazi didn't have such a negative connotation they'd be using that too.

(April 24, 2011 at 3:00 am)theVOID Wrote: "Conservative Libertarian" = "Conservative socially liberal fiscal conservative"

That is literally a nonsense statement, just as "Conservative progressive" or "Anarchist totalitarian" are.

Bachman is, at best, a "social and fiscal conservative" or more realistically a "Socially conservative fiscal Mercantilist"

I realize that, but over here in America, there ARE "Conservative Libertarians". No matter how much YOU PERSONALLY oppose them or disagree with them, no matter how much you claim it is a crap use of the word "Libertarian", the cold hard reality of it is that the teaparty people, the Glenn Beck fans, and so forth fall under what Glenn Beck has termed "Conservative Libertarian". If they called themselves "Progressive Conservatives" I would be like "There is nothing Progressive about them", but REGARDLESS, I would still be forced to accept that is what they have named themselves.

Dont blame me..this is what Glenn Beck has done, and he made that frankenstein of a word, not me.

(April 24, 2011 at 3:06 am)Minimalist Wrote: And she doesn't give a flying fuck what you think - the shitwits have adopted her.

Firstly, I couldn't care less what she thinks, she can call herself whatever she likes.

Secondly, Is there anywhere at all where she has declared herself a Libertarian? She has on numerous occasions called herself a conservative, both socially and fiscally, but I have never seen her label herself a Libertarian, nor have I seen any Libertarians call her one, all of this equivocation comes from outside commentators and people who are opposed to her.

Quote:As far as I'm concerned Republilcolibertarianazi covers her very well....but it is kind of long to say.

Then how about "Conservative"?

Quote:Notice how they run all these ideas together? If Nazi didn't have such a negative connotation they'd be using that too.

Let me get this straight, one blog calls him "Libertarian leaning" despite his being a self defined conservative with "family values" that he has no problem legislating, so that makes him a Libertarian? Sure... And Bachman supports him (as a conservative) so that must make her a Libertarian too! Hot damn.

Hey, Obama shared a burger with Medvedev, he must be a Russian!

(April 24, 2011 at 3:15 am)reverendjeremiah Wrote: I realize that, but over here in America, there ARE "Conservative Libertarians".

Sorry, but that is a nonsensical combination of words, regardless of what country you are in.

Quote: No matter how much YOU PERSONALLY oppose them or disagree with them, no matter how much you claim it is a crap use of the word "Libertarian", the cold hard reality of it is that the teaparty people, the Glenn Beck fans, and so forth fall under what Glenn Beck has termed "Conservative Libertarian".

Oh, so Glen Beck is the dictionary now? Thanks for pointing that out. I guess If we're going to use Glen Beck as our source of linguistic integrity then half the world are Nazis! Hey Nazi, how are you today? Woah look at that Nazi healthcare! Damn, that's a fine looking Nazi Cheerleader! Hey, I want gays to marry, fuck I'm a Nazi!

Quote:If they called themselves "Progressive Conservatives" I would be like "There is nothing Progressive about them", but REGARDLESS, I would still be forced to accept that is what they have named themselves.

Right, but you wouldn't be calling them "progressive conservatives" or complaining about "progressives" because of the policies of these self-defined "Progressive conservatives", nor would you be making a thread entitled "Progressive conservative Michele Bachman does x"

Quote:Dont blame me..this is what Glenn Beck has done, and he made that frankenstein of a word, not me.

Yeah the fact that you propagate it has nothing to do with you! Shut up Nazi! Oh, you're not a Nazi? well it's not my fault, that's what Glen Beck has decided you are.

It's not even analogous to a Frankenstein, it's more like saying Glen Beck created a Square Circle.

Void Wrote:Firstly, I could care less what she thinks, she can call herself whatever she likes.

Since I'm busy rocking out to some awesome strings on zero sleep, I have only the attention span to note that you meant "couldn't care less". Be careful: we might americanize your poor soul yet

Thanks Sae, you've saved me from David Mitchel!

(April 24, 2011 at 1:29 pm)theVOID Wrote: Thanks Sae, you've saved me from David Mitchel!

And you're not the only one I saved...

If I don't sleep soon, my eyes aren't going to be saved in time to check out other cute girls three years from now. And that would be a shame. The forum is totally not worth it today

(Holy shit, I just realized that itunes's 'shuffle' doesn't randomize the songs... it just ssets them up according to some complex set of numbers >_< I'm a moron )

(April 24, 2011 at 3:46 am)theVOID Wrote: Sorry, but that is a nonsensical combination of words, regardless of what country you are in.

I have already AGREED with you five hundred times that they are non-sensical words and even called them "frankenstein words" in my last post. How much more do I have to say that I agree the title is fucked up before you realize that I think the words "conservative Libertarian" is fucked up.

So what do you want me to do about it then? They use this title in American politics now wether you like it or I like it. Should I ignore them when they call themselves that? Libertarians ARE voting them in. Sure, I am willing to bet my next 5 paychecks that you, adrian, and most of the libertarians voting for them also think the word "conservative libertarian" is fucked up as well, and that the people dont stand for the social values of Libertarians, but that does NOT, for one SECOND, take away from the fact that most AMERICAN Libertarians are members of the teaparty (I know, I know, Void, I know where your stance is.), that many AMERICAN Libertarians will vote Republican because their economic views eclipse their social views (I KNOW, I KNOW VOID.. they arent really Libertarians), and that some who have claimed to be Libertarians such as Ron Paul have easily switched over to the Republican party (I KNOW, I KNOW VOID..Ron Paul isnt a true Libertarian).

So what do you want me to think? That these people arent true Libertarians?

Fine, Done. They arent true Libertarians. They are merely fake Libertarians claiming they are Libertarians when they vote for people like Ron Paul and many neo-cons in the Republican party.

You dont want me to even put the name "Conservative Libertarian" on them? Fine, done. Now what? Ron Paul isnt a true Libertarian and he isnt a "conservative Libertarian" because that word isnt true either. He is merely someone who has run for the Presidency twice. Once as a Libertarian condidate, and once as a Republican candidate. But he isnt a Libertarian. FINE!

Now what? What am I supposed to think? What am I supposed to say when I see these AMERICAN people, who obviously are lying to me by claiming they are Libertarians, and are voting for people like Ron Paul (who ran on the Libertarian ticket), Bachmann, Palin, and even openly brag on Libertarian forums that they are members of tea parties. I even posted a letter from the Libertarian party itself asking if its members have joined their local tea party.

Am I to think the Libertarian Party itself isnt really Libertarian now?

What do you want me to do, say, and think about this Void and Adrian, that will make you happy?

(April 24, 2011 at 3:46 am)theVOID Wrote: Oh, so Glen Beck is the dictionary now? Thanks for pointing that out. I guess If we're going to use Glen Beck as our source of linguistic integrity then half the world are Nazis! Hey Nazi, how are you today? Woah look at that Nazi healthcare! Damn, that's a fine looking Nazi Cheerleader! Hey, I want gays to marry, fuck I'm a Nazi!

http://www.lp.org/blogs/donny-ferguson/g...ibertarian
Straight from the Libertarian Parties official blog on Glen Beck and his "becoming more and more libertarian every day". Not one...single...bad....thing..is mentioned about Beck.

I look at it this way. You, Void, claim you are a true Libertarian. Thats fine. Im not going to question you on that statement in this post.

I just noticed how a true Libertarian such as yourself took right off on putting Glenn Beck in his place, to ASSURE me that Beck isnt an authority when it comes to Libertarians..yet I dont get that feeling when I search Glen Becks name on the Libertarian Parties official web site. In fact, I have yet to see it. In fact I see nothing but praise for him when I search for his name on their site:
(http://www.lp.org/blogs/donny-ferguson/l...s-near-you)

Donny Ferguson, Director of Communications for The Libertarian Party Wrote:But Root isn’t the only one spreading the libertarian message in the mainstream media with “The Conscience of a Libertarian”. Glenn Beck, popular Fox News Channel personality and host of one of the country’s biggest radio programs now proudly declares he’s becoming “more and more libertarian.”

..and...

Wes Benedict Wrote:*at the Glenn Beck D.C. Rally* While I think Glenn Beck holds some Libertarian views, he strays on some issues. Some passersby mentioned having taken the Quiz on Beck's television show. Of that informed group, some eagerly accepted the bumper stickers and quiz cards, while others were clearly against us.

Should I take you word, Void, or should I take the word of the big wigs of the Libertarian Party on Glen Beck?

(April 24, 2011 at 3:46 am)theVOID Wrote: Right, but you wouldn't be calling them "progressive conservatives" or complaining about "progressives" because of the policies of these self-defined "Progressive conservatives", nor would you be making a thread entitled "Progressive conservative Michele Bachman does x"

Are you aware that there are a few parties world wide who call themselves "Progressive", but arent socially liberal, or even economically moderate for that matter? I am. I would not say they are NOT Progressives. I would say they arent what we Americans call Progressives. Surely you can appreciate this difference...of course I would admit that their party name is "progressives".

(April 24, 2011 at 3:46 am)theVOID Wrote: Rev J. - Dont blame me..this is what Glenn Beck has done, and he made that frankenstein of a word, not me.

Void - Yeah the fact that you propagate it has nothing to do with you! Shut up Nazi! Oh, you're not a Nazi? well it's not my fault, that's what Glen Beck has decided you are.

It's not even analogous to a Frankenstein, it's more like saying Glen Beck created a Square Circle.

But not only is Glenn Beck pushing it, but the Libertarian Party itself is getting on board with it. Granted, the Lib party may only have one leg in the "conservative Libertarian" car ride, while they hold the other out to drag..but regardless, they are in that car.

So what am I supposed to think Void? Ignore the Libertarian Party webside and take your word for it?

Search: "Bad things about Glenn Beck" on the Official Liberatrian Party website
http://www.lp.org/search/node/Bad+things...Glenn+Beck

Results: Your search yielded no results

(April 24, 2011 at 2:44 pm)reverendjeremiah Wrote: I have already AGREED with you five hundred times that they are non-sensical words and even called them "frankenstein words" in my last post. How much more do I have to say that I agree the title is fucked up before you realize that I think the words "conservative Libertarian" is fucked up.

You can say it as many times as you like, but you continue to propagate the meme, why the fuck should I take you seriously when you say "Yeah it's nonsense" and then keep using it?

Quote:So what do you want me to do about it then? They use this title in American politics now wether you like it or I like it. Should I ignore them when they call themselves that? Libertarians ARE voting them in. Sure, I am willing to bet my next 5 paychecks that you, adrian, and most of the libertarians voting for them also think the word "conservative libertarian" is fucked up as well, and that the people dont stand for the social values of Libertarians, but that does NOT, for one SECOND, take away from the fact that most AMERICAN Libertarians are members of the teaparty (I know, I know, Void, I know where your stance is.), that many AMERICAN Libertarians will vote Republican because their economic views eclipse their social views (I KNOW, I KNOW VOID.. they arent really Libertarians), and that some who have claimed to be Libertarians such as Ron Paul have easily switched over to the Republican party (I KNOW, I KNOW VOID..Ron Paul isnt a true Libertarian).

1. The tea party is a group of people, mostly conservatives, some libertarians, who largely follow the Austrian school of economics and are rallying against the stimulus spending, debt and deficits because they fear that the Austrian predictions will again be correct just as they were with the Nasdaq and Housing bubble, the Austrian school is predicting a nasty currency collapse and economic downturn that will be much much worse than allowing a recession. Yes the difference between Libertarians and Conservatives is significant on individual liberties, but the problem at hand is MUCH more pressing than any civil rights issue right now - If your currency collapses things are going to be much worse for much more people than if gay people can't marry - THAT is the primary concern of everyone who isn't drinking Bernanke's Keynesian cool-aid.

2. Ron Paul is a Libertarian, to conflate him with neo-cons is absurd, in his new book he has an entire chapter with a scathing attack on neo-cons. He's also said, when asked by a reported if he thinks he'd suit Sarah Palins voters should she not run for the presidency that he wouldn't because they wouldn't like his policies.

3. Your Democrats might be marginally better on social issues, but they're a fucking disaster on economics, while the Libertarians have more in common with them socially the trade-off is just not worth it. When your options are 1. Side with conservatives with some economics sense, 2. Side with the dems and help tank the economy or 3. Try and go it alone and get nothing done soon enough - It's no surprise that given the economic conditions it makes more sense for the Libertarians to try and infiltrate and persuade the republicans than it does to side with the dems or just stay in the LP.

Peter Schiff explains why the Libertarians are better off trying to influence the GOP.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=45sN9xbBOEE

Quote:Straight from the Libertarian Parties official blog on Glen Beck and his "becoming more and more libertarian every day". Not one...single...bad....thing..is mentioned about Beck.

So he's less likely to support someone who wants to boss you around? Less likely to promote archaic marriage laws? Is that not good? Hey look, Glen Beck is becoming less of a totalitarian! Why is that a bad thing? It's absurd, you complain that these people are totalitarian fiscal conservatives and when some socially liberal Libertarians infiltrate their ranks and change their positions it's a problem??? That is EXACTLY what you need! If the Libertarians can get traction amongst the Glen Beck's of the world and change their minds on social issues then EVERYONE is better off...

Quote:I just noticed how a true Libertarian such as yourself took right off on putting Glenn Beck in his place, to ASSURE me that Beck isnt an authority when it comes to Libertarians..yet I dont get that feeling when I search Glen Becks name on the Libertarian Parties official web site. In fact, I have yet to see it. In fact I see nothing but praise for him when I search for his name on their site:

So Glen Beck "Becoming more and more libertarian every day" makes him an Authority on Libertarians? What the fuck are you smoking? "Becoming more and more" clearly implies he's currently not one.

And Like I said before, Glen Beck and the other social conservatives becoming more libertarian is good for everyone.

Wes Benedict Wrote:*at the Glenn Beck D.C. Rally* While I think Glenn Beck holds some Libertarian views, he strays on some issues. Some passersby mentioned having taken the Quiz on Beck's television show. Of that informed group, some eagerly accepted the bumper stickers and quiz cards, while others were clearly against us.

Which tells you what? Did you READ that?

"Glenn Beck holds some Libertarian views" - Yeah, Small government and somewhat free markets

"he strays on some issues" - Social liberties and some corporatism

Quote:Should I take you word, Void, or should I take the word of the big wigs of the Libertarian Party on Glen Beck?

You mean that he agrees with them on some issues? Well no shit, I have never said otherwise, I'll freely admit that I agree with the Tea Party on some issues, so fucking what? That doesn't make them, or me, "Conservative Libertarians".

Quote:Are you aware that there are a few parties world wide who call themselves "Progressive", but arent socially liberal, or even economically moderate for that matter? I am. I would not say they are NOT Progressives. I would say they arent what we Americans call Progressives. Surely you can appreciate this difference...of course I would admit that their party name is "progressives".

That's not analogous, their party name is the "Tea Party" not the "Conservative Libertarians". Go find me an example of some party somewhere who are socially conservative but call themselves "progressive" and I'll start making threads equating the two, ya know, just like you do.

Quote:But not only is Glenn Beck pushing it, but the Libertarian Party itself is getting on board with it. Granted, the Lib party may only have one leg in the "conservative Libertarian" car ride, while they hold the other out to drag..but regardless, they are in that car.

Nonsense, Glen Beck calls himself a conservative who is becoming more and more persuaded by Libertarian ideas, not a "conservative libertarian" nor does anyone else use that label. He's still not a Libertarian - If he's being persuaded then good! - If the Libertarians can reform the GOP then they'll be doing your country a ton of good.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libertarian_conservatism

---

Libertarian caucus of the Republican party "Republican Liberty Caucus"

Current elected officials
U.S. Senator Rand Paul from Kentucky
U.S. Senator Mike Lee from Utah
U.S. Senator Jim DeMint from South Carolina
U.S. Senator Pat Toomey from Pennsylvania
Governor Paul LePage of Maine
Governor Nikki Haley of South Carolina
U.S. Representative Ron Paul from Texas
U.S. Representative Roscoe Bartlett from Maryland
U.S. Representative Tom McClintock from California
U.S. Representative Justin Amash from Michigan
U.S. Representative Jeff Flake from Arizona
U.S. Representative Scott Garrett from New Jersey
U.S. Representative Jimmy Duncan from Tennessee
U.S. Representative Steve Chabot from Ohio
U.S. Representative Jim Jordan from Ohio
U.S. Representative Adrian M. Smith from Nebraska
U.S. Representative Chip Cravaack from Minnesota
U.S. Representative Mick Mulvaney from South Carolina
[edit] Former elected officials[12]Former Governor Mark Sanford of South Carolina
Former Governor Gary E. Johnson of New Mexico
Former Governor Craig Benson of New Hampshire
Former U.S. Senator Barry Goldwater of Arizona
Former U.S. Senator Robert Taft of Ohio
Former U.S. Representative John Shadegg of Arizona
Former U.S. Representative Bob Barr of Georgia
Former U.S. Representative Sam Steiger of Arizona
Former U.S. Representative George V. Hansen of Idaho
Former U.S. Representative Barry Goldwater, Jr. of California
Former U.S. Representative H.R. Gross of Iowa
Former U.S. Representative Howard Buffett of Nebraska

Well fuck me sideways, someone does use the term, I'll give you that one

Still couldn't help notice this: "conservative libertarianism can refer to any number of varying and at times mutually exclusive political orientations." - That's precisely why I thought the term untenable, though that doesn't seem to stop some.

Also, they seem to base this on Ron Paul, suggesting to me that "Conservative Libertarianism" simply refers to people who are personally social conservatives but who would not legislate it, which is precisely what Ron Paul is and the likes of Bachman is not.

It's essentially a synonym for "Right Libertarian", which is substantially different from "small government conservatism".

Also, you'll notice that Bachman and Palin don't appear on your list