(June 25, 2016 at 8:46 am)Allanon Wrote:

(June 25, 2016 at 8:27 am)Losty Wrote: Yes, except Scotland is better off without the UK economically. The same cannot be said for the Uk without the EU.

Your basing that opinion on....?  As far as I can see there is no reason we cant be as well off or better without the sometimes ridiculous legislation set by Europe?

We have angered our main market and even made it in their interest too apply punitive measures. "You don't want to leave" they will say to other nations "look at what happened to England"  we are totally screwed with no hope of ever emerging. The "ridiculous legislations" were mainly in the minds of the writers of the Daily Mail anyway. What legislation there was protected us from the worst excesses of the tories. We are without this protection now so the tories can inflict on us whatever evil they want. We are exposed, weaker and dragging the world down with us.

(June 25, 2016 at 10:42 am)robvalue Wrote:

(June 25, 2016 at 10:24 am)Allanon Wrote: It was 2011 and it was an escalation of the Mark Duggan shooting

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_England_riots

Ah okay thanks, that was probably it.

I seem to remember a load of shops that had nothing to do with anything being smashed up for no good reason.

Yeah, it was a shame about those shops. I remember seeing it on the news. Apparently they sent Scottish cops down to advise on how to deal with the situation towards the end.

Or maybe that was different London riots. No idea.

The only good thing that has happened so far, as far I'm concerned, is Cameron has resigned.

Whether or not the next PM will be worse however, will remain to be seen.

(June 25, 2016 at 10:51 am)robvalue Wrote: The only good thing that has happened so far, as far I'm concerned, is Cameron has resigned.

Whether or not the next PM will be worse however, will remain to be seen.

I see no way that we can recover from this. When every single expert says its madness to vote out you would expect people to listen I mean this isn't America for fucks sake we used to respect intellectuals.

(June 25, 2016 at 10:51 am)Bella Morte Wrote:

(June 25, 2016 at 10:42 am)robvalue Wrote: Ah okay thanks, that was probably it.

I seem to remember a load of shops that had nothing to do with anything being smashed up for no good reason.

Yeah, it was a shame about those shops. I remember seeing it on the news. Apparently they sent Scottish cops down to advise on how to deal with the situation towards the end.

Or maybe that was different London riots. No idea.

Yes. It's sad what happens when mob mentality takes over. They seem to become an entity with a much lower level of intelligence and reasonableness than the actual average of the members.

(June 25, 2016 at 9:00 am)Emjay Wrote:

(June 25, 2016 at 7:37 am)LastPoet Wrote: You are a nice guy Emjay, but niceties do not really work with the stubborn. I have no doubts that brexiters also have good qualities, not in this case.

Well, I'll never wish the BNPers well or other such extreme right-wing hate-everything parties, and they make up a sizable proportion of the leave vote, but I have no idea how much. What I do know is that Napo is not like that. And I'm hoping Bella too, but less sure on that unfortunately, but benefit of the doubt.

I would never vote for BNP or any other extreme right-wing party like that. I'd most likely be fucking killed by them or something.

(June 25, 2016 at 10:53 am)downbeatplumb Wrote:

(June 25, 2016 at 10:51 am)robvalue Wrote: The only good thing that has happened so far, as far I'm concerned, is Cameron has resigned.

Whether or not the next PM will be worse however, will remain to be seen.

I see no way that we can recover from this. When every single expert says its madness to vote out you would expect people to listen I mean this isn't America for fucks sake we used to respect intellectuals.

Yeah. I feel petty glum about it. There seems to be huge optimism from the leave crowd that all this will just blow over, but I really don't know what that is based on.

(June 25, 2016 at 10:42 am)robvalue Wrote: [...]I seem to remember a load of shops that had nothing to do with anything being smashed up for no good reason.

I remember going to the shops on a Sunday afternoon, without a clue, that anything was going on, until I saw a line of bobbies in riot gear on my street, standing and observing from a safe distance a bunch of youths in hoodies, who were chucking bricks at a Foot Locker. Fun times...

(June 25, 2016 at 10:50 am)downbeatplumb Wrote:

(June 25, 2016 at 8:46 am)Allanon Wrote: Your basing that opinion on....?  As far as I can see there is no reason we cant be as well off or better without the sometimes ridiculous legislation set by Europe?

We have angered our main market and even made it in their interest too apply punitive measures. "You don't want to leave" they will say to other nations "look at what happened to England"  we are totally screwed with no hope of ever emerging. The "ridiculous legislations" were mainly in the minds of the writers of the Daily Mail anyway. What legislation there was protected us from the worst excesses of the tories. We are without this protection now so the tories can inflict on us whatever evil they want. We are exposed, weaker and dragging the world down with us.

Our main market?

https://www.uktradeinfo.com/Statistics/O..._Data.aspx

Quote:Non-EU Exports for April 2016 were £13.0 billion.
EU Exports for April 2016 were £12.0 billion.

Non-EU Imports for April 2016 were £21.9 billion.
EU Imports for April 2016 were £19.1 billion.

What legislation there was protected us from the worst excesses of the tories??? One mans excesses is another mans fixing the shit that went down on Labours watch!  Don't get me wrong, I don't agree with a lot of the things that have been implemented but we'd be in a much worse position under blundering brown and the red scurge!

(June 25, 2016 at 10:17 am)madog Wrote:  Emjay said ..... "And if Bella is part of the LGBT community, as I am"


The ECHR has championed LBGT and every other minorities wrongly differentiated against by laws, rules of Public authorities and national Courts and numerous other discriminations in the 47 member States of the Council of Europe since the 1950's.

As I have pointed out the ECHR can not bring a case against the EU because the EU failed accession which goes back to 1974 after France, the final EU member state that ratified the ECHR ....

The EU is growing and has and may well include eastern European nations, Turkey, and who knows the nations the future may bring ...

The UK is very liberal, whatever people try to make out, but even if they violate a minorities human rights they have the ECHR .... But the EU has or will have some member states that are unlikely to be any where near as liberal as the UK .... They will be voting on issues that can Direct the UK to violate the ECHR .... and as I said the EU can not be ruled on by the ECHR ...

I have provided an example for the above, although the principle I tried to point out was not taken seriously ...

Okay, my apologies. I don't know much about how the ECHR works but all I do know is we need to keep it, but I've always associated it as part and parcel of being in the EU. You're saying that's not the case... and they're actually in opposition... or can be?