(June 18, 2016 at 7:27 pm)Jehanne Wrote: The testimonial evidence for alien abductions is quite abundant, and in some cases, even well-attested:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alien_abduction

Why not accept alien abductions as being a real phenomenon, at least by the "standards" of Christian belief?

Some christians probably do accept alien abductions as fact, as do some atheists. It's a big universe. Do you not think other intelligent life could exist? I'd at least be open to alien abductions.

What you call open I'd call empty.  Aliens didn't cross the galaxy to stick shit up a rednecks ass after happy hour. That would be his buddy Phil.

(June 24, 2016 at 3:26 pm)Lek Wrote:

(June 18, 2016 at 7:27 pm)Jehanne Wrote: The testimonial evidence for alien abductions is quite abundant, and in some cases, even well-attested:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alien_abduction

Why not accept alien abductions as being a real phenomenon, at least by the "standards" of Christian belief?

Some christians probably do accept alien abductions as fact, as do some atheists.  It's a big universe.  Do you not think other intelligent life could exist?  I'd at least be open to alien abductions.

I believe that ET exists; I don't think that they are here snatching-up humans.  "Extraordinary claims...."

(June 18, 2016 at 7:27 pm)Jehanne Wrote: The testimonial evidence for alien abductions is quite abundant, and in some cases, even well-attested:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alien_abduction

Why not accept alien abductions as being a real phenomenon, at least by the "standards" of Christian belief?

Because Christians can not abide by their supremely idiotic believe system being diluted by another still extremely idiotic, but perhaps very very slightly less idiotic, beliefs.

Aliens exist, almost certainly, yeah.

They almost certainly are not hanging around here though. Two entirely different things. The distances alone are a huge problem. Anyone so amazingly advanced as to be able to get here would find us thoroughly uninteresting, I imagine.

(June 23, 2016 at 11:51 pm)Rhythm Wrote:

(June 23, 2016 at 9:28 pm)Disciple Wrote: Hey Rhythm, just curious, how do you figure the belief in demons is backsliding into paganism when the bible mentions them all through it?

Where do you think those narratives came from?  -and perhaps you should take another look, because they aren't "all through it" -at all-.  

Quote:Even Christ in the NT refers to them them by name in some places. Sure, there are a lot of pagan spiritual systems where the adherents work directly with demonic energy but I don't see how they can have any ownership to the concept. Would like to hear your perspective on it.

The word and concept itself is of greek origin.  Originally it didn't mean anything intrinsically negative, just spirits.  They could be good, bad, indifferent (just like people).  These are the demons to which "paul" was referring, for example, when he asked how people could be right with the lord while they worked with demons.  He wasn't thinking of the demons you're thinking of...which is a subsequent conflation of fallen angels and evil spirits with demons arising out of another wave of syncretism (the same that granted christians their traditional view of hell).   He was speaking directly about people who, for example, made an offering to "the spirits of this or that tree" as a safeguard against a hunting accident.  

So you tell me, how christian is it to believe in dryads and jotunn, by another name?

Ok, I see what you're saying there. Im sure you know, but the original new testament was written in Greek for the most part. Demon is the word we use for them nowadays with the original coming from greek, but they've had several different monikers throughout the ages. In fact, in modern times a lot of people call them aliens, before that, they were called gods aka Osiris, Shiva, Apollo etc. Also, in the old testament there were several instances of people that were working with demons that weren't your stereotypical claws and fangs variety. King Solomon, has it attributed to him that he catalogued, worked with and captured 72 high level "demons".  There is a book called the Lesser Key of Solomon or Goetia. Suspposedly, he trapped them in a barrel or vessel with his "magical ring" and inscribed kabbalistic  symbols on it and when the inscription was rubbed off it by the Babylonians, it released them. Kind of reminds you of the genie in the lamp legends. Its the same mystical system practiced in the high levels of freemasonry and the Catholic church today. And to answer your question, I feel it is indeed very Christian to believe in that stuff. The old testament also mentions giants in genesis 6. There is also a book found in the dead sea scrolls called the book of giants. The Hebrews recorded in the book of Jeremiah that they were like "grasshoppers" in the sight of their enemies they were to eliminate. Its because they weren't human.  Thanks for your reply.

They certainly do believe in the aliens south of the boarder, though. HEY OH!

*ahem* I've actually come across some Christians who believe in alien life for the same reason atheists and other rational people would. Because the universe is vast and the chances of us being alone in the universe is extremely unlikely. And like us, they find it unlikely aliens would travel millions of lightyears or whatever to abduct humans. Especially if they have the technology for space travel. In fact, if they're that advanced, why bother with us at all?

Of course in my experience these are usually the younger generation around my age demographic who by nature are more open minded, reasonable, apologetic, and New Testament, as opposed to the older generation who would probably either believe in the alien abduction stories and little green men, or dismiss the idea of life on other planets entirely and think we're alone in the universe because apparently God likes leaving empty canvas space.

Normally, they can some times be rational until their own religion comes up, and then anything goes.

(June 25, 2016 at 5:59 pm)Disciple Wrote: In fact, in modern times a lot of people call them aliens, before that, they were called gods aka Osiris, Shiva, Apollo etc.

(June 25, 2016 at 5:59 pm)Disciple Wrote: Ok, I see what you're saying there. Im sure you know, but the original new testament was written in Greek for the most part. Demon is the word we use for them nowadays with the original coming from greek, but they've had several different monikers throughout the ages. In fact, in modern times a lot of people call them aliens, before that, they were called gods aka Osiris, Shiva, Apollo etc. Also, in the old testament there were several instances of people that were working with demons that weren't your stereotypical claws and fangs variety.

I don't think you understood what I said at all.  We don't just use the word for them today, we use the word for a different -thing- today than we did then, and we used it for a different thing before it was used in -that- way.

Quote:King Solomon, has it attributed to him that he catalogued, worked with and captured 72 high level "demons".  There is a book called the Lesser Key of Solomon or Goetia.

There is, but that book isn't what you think it is.  It's a new age fake, like the Necronomicon.

Quote:Suspposedly, he trapped them in a barrel or vessel with his "magical ring" and inscribed kabbalistic  symbols on it and when the inscription was rubbed off it by the Babylonians, it released them. Kind of reminds you of the genie in the lamp legends. Its the same mystical system practiced in the high levels of freemasonry and the Catholic church today. And to answer your question, I feel it is indeed very Christian to believe in that stuff. The old testament also mentions giants in genesis 6. There is also a book found in the dead sea scrolls called the book of giants. The Hebrews recorded in the book of Jeremiah that they were like "grasshoppers" in the sight of their enemies they were to eliminate. Its because they weren't human.  Thanks for your reply.

I suddenly get the feeling I'm talking to an industry rep from Reynolds.

(June 25, 2016 at 7:27 pm)Ayen Wrote: They certainly do believe in the aliens south of the boarder, though. HEY OH!

*ahem* I've actually come across some Christians who believe in alien life for the same reason atheists and other rational people would. Because the universe is vast and the chances of us being alone in the universe is extremely unlikely. And like us, they find it unlikely aliens would travel millions of lightyears or whatever to abduct humans. Especially if they have the technology for space travel. In fact, if they're that advanced, why bother with us at all?

Of course in my experience these are usually the younger generation around my age demographic who by nature are more open minded, reasonable, apologetic, and New Testament, as opposed to the older generation who would probably either believe in the alien abduction stories and little green men, or dismiss the idea of life on other planets entirely and think we're alone in the universe because apparently God likes leaving empty canvas space.

Normally, they can some times be rational until their own religion comes up, and then anything goes.

I remember this guy whom I worked with some 30 years ago who told me that the sequel to the movie Aliens was going to be Illegal Aliens; I thought it was the lamest joke that I had ever heard, at least until the Alien versus Predator movie.