Yes, white privilege is real. Yes, male privilege is real. Yes, straight privilege is real. Why is this even being questioned??

(July 15, 2016 at 5:02 am)Iroscato Wrote: Yes, white privilege is real. Yes, male privilege is real. Yes, straight privilege is real. Why is this even being questioned??

Because some people want confirmation that their own prejudices are just peachy.

In the UK white working class boys are now the least likely to attend HE out of all other demographics.

http://www.spectator.co.uk/2016/02/who-s...education/

White privilege isn't a law, and isn't an all-or-nothing thing. It's a bias, a statistical reality.

For example, given a particular guy that got pulled over for a broken taillight and just warned and released, and another that was pulled over for a broken taillight, searched, and arrested for possession of drugs, what will we think?

Either or both could be white, or black. But the white privilege is this-- there's such a strong correlation in this case between race or outcome, that it represents an unwritten rule: white guys get a break, black guys get disciplined.

So if something isn't a set law, but can be clearly seen in correlations, is it real or not? If not, then evolution isn't real either because its purely statistical model.

(July 15, 2016 at 5:02 am)Iroscato Wrote: Yes, white privilege is real. Yes, male privilege is real. Yes, straight privilege is real. Why is this even being questioned??

Because I'm against the idea that any subject is unquestionable.

On this forum I've dealt with clams that having sex with 9 year olds is ok in specific circumstances, that the theory of evolution isn't true for certain reasons.

But I don't think I've ever just said, this is unquestionable! As my argument.
That's like a red flag to a bull for me personally.

(July 15, 2016 at 4:53 am)SteelCurtain Wrote:

(July 15, 2016 at 4:27 am)paulpablo Wrote: But can you see how it would be annoying as a white person to be told you don't have to deal with things you definitely have to deal with?

Especially the last one, white people get to walk the earth without being aware of their colour?

Because I'd really fit in perfectly well without standing out in China, Nigeria, Pakistan, India,  Ethiopia, Japan, Korea.
I have friends in work who are Pakistani and I'm pretty certain they would be more safe than me while in Pakistan, same as the Nigerians who I work with.

Come on Paul. I'm not talking about Pakistan or China. That is such a red herring, I really don't know why you brought it up. We can talk about xenophobia and nationalism if you'd like. I'm talking about people who were born in America, whose families have been in America for a long time, and who have to fear small examples of racism every day, in nearly every aspect of society.

I live in Tennessee. The black side of my family has been in this country for ~240 years longer than the white side of my family. Every day, everywhere I go, it is more than possible that I will be followed around in a store. I have been told to leave a small restaurant because 'we don't serve no ISIS here.' I was pulled over by a cop two months after I got out of the US Navy and had a service weapon pulled on me because I didn't request permission to reach into my glove box. People tell me "you're very articulate," surprised. I am constantly, consistently aware and reminded that I'm brown.

I have black female friends who have to tell people all the time not to touch their fucking hair. Who don't get jobs because they wear they hair natural. Who can't be angry about anything without being seen as the typical out of control black female.

And then we have to explain why it's not the same if you have to travel to a foreign country in order to experience the same issues.

I'm not saying that you said or didn't say anything.

The buzzfeed article.

It says specifically, white people can walk the world not being aware of their colour.

This is exactly what I'm talking about, I'm not denying the existence of white privilege in certain circumstances but to say I can walk the world without ever being aware I'm white or of what colour or lack of colour I am is ridiculous.

It's not a red herring if I'm talking precisely about what the article is talking about word for word.

Additionally I can just walk around my local area to be made to feel aware of my colour since there's lots of Pakistani majority streets in my area.
They used to be known as white no go zones but have calmed down since.

(July 15, 2016 at 3:04 am)Mathilda Wrote:

(July 14, 2016 at 9:26 pm)SteelCurtain Wrote: I'm sorry, but the irony in your conclusions about white privilege is palpable.

I cannot speak for England, but in America, as a black person, you have no clue what you're talking about. While I object to Buzzfeed's use of the word 'never' in most of those memes, a lot of their examples are spot on.

By and large, white people do not have to deal with a lot of the systemic injustices that are a part of everyday life for people of color. Some of the things you said were "Not True. Without a doubt" are absolutely credible examples of white privilege.

The fact that regularly people act surprised at how well spoken I am, or that white people dressed with the exact same clothing (hoodies, baggy jeans, certain natural hairstyles) will be labelled stylish when a black person would be labelled a thug, the worry (not the prospect that it will never happen, but the consistent, constant concern) that any contact with police could be your last or could end up in imprisonment or violence, or that if you wear your hair the way it naturally grows out you might not get a job or might be pigeonholed into a cultural meme are all examples of white privilege.

None of these things never happen to white people. It's not that only black people have to deal with these things. It's that what you don't or won't recognize is that these little things are part of everyday life for black people and other people of color. Every day. There are other factors at play, sure. There's economic/class privilege that plays a lot into it.

The most telling aspect is that black people are saying, "hey--pay attention, you guys by and large don't have to deal with this crap all the time." And a lot of white people are seriously just dismissing this out of hand, like "no you don't" or "it's not that bad, get over it." This is the most invasive type of privilege.

How would I know that I have white privilege? I can't know when I've got a job over someone else because the interviewer unconsciously prefers white people. I hardly ever bother doing anything with my hair and it can get quite unruly. I don't even own a hair drier and until your post I've never known that if I was black then this would have had an impact on how people perceive me. I wear fleeces (hoodies) and I look like a sports chick rather than a thug. I walk or drive along the streets without worrying about being stopped by the police and because of this I'm never aware that it's an issue for other people who aren't white.

But I am aware of male privilege. There have been countless examples of me being denied a job because I'm a woman. I've seen it from the other side as well. I interviewed a white man who was much older than everyone else in the company. We wanted to hire him. The CV went up to the manager who never met him and instantly decided that he wouldn't be a good fit because of his age. I saw the same thing happen to me for several years in my mid thirties when as a childless woman I was considered a child bearing risk.  And the times that my opinions have been ignored and discounted when in a group of men even though I know that I am right and am later proved to be. I work in a male dominated profession so it's something I am very aware of. Or when my boss gave work in my specialist area to someone else who struggled with it and ignored all my years of experience. I knew that what he was going to would fail but everyone ignored me.

If I mention this to my brother who is also a software engineer he dismisses it. He comes up with excuses or tries to rationalise it away. And by doing so perpetuates male privilege.

If a demographic tells me that I am privileged in a certain way, why should I not believe them? My default position is to accept what they say because I'm not the one living their lives.

I suppose this might be classed as petty to bring up but I feel the need to.

If a person from a certain demographic tells you that you're privileged in a certain way I know for near enough certain that you would question it if it was something you disagreed with.
You've already said your profession is male dominated profession and it's something you're aware of.
So what if a white male told you that you got your job for being an attractive female and it's just a case of female privilege?
So you asked why would you not believe a demographic if they said you're privileged? Because you might have come to a reasonable conclusion that they're wrong?

(July 15, 2016 at 12:55 am)Rhythm Wrote: It's that thing I use to talk my way out of a ticket rather than get shot reaching for the registration.

I don't even have to talk. I just sit there being all white and girly.

(July 15, 2016 at 4:17 am)SteelCurtain Wrote: To be clear, most white privilege isn't something that white people are guilty of, or something they're actively doing. Rather, it's tiny little things in our society that build up. It comes to a boiling point when people start talking about it openly, and when social media can so easily bring people with common experiences together. It becomes harder to maintain the ruse that it's just me, or just my city/state.

Why do people always get defensive about it? It's so weird to me.

My white female privilege:

I can get out of pretty much any traffic violation just by existing.
People assume I know how to have an intelligent conversation with basic vocabulary and grammar skills before I start speaking.
No one thinks I'm going to steal stuff when I go shopping.
If I walk down a dark street people ask me if I need help instead of being afraid of me.

I'm sure there's more that I don't even notice.

My white guilt: none

No one asks to be born whatever race they are born. White privilege isn't about putting white people down or calling white people racists. Little things that make life easier that are not earned but instead just kind of happen because you're white.

(July 15, 2016 at 5:22 am)bennyboy Wrote: White privilege isn't a law, and isn't an all-or-nothing thing. It's a bias, a statistical reality.

For example, given a particular guy that got pulled over for a broken taillight and just warned and released, and another that was pulled over for a broken taillight, searched, and arrested for possession of drugs, what will we think?

Either or both could be white, or black. But the white privilege is this-- there's such a strong correlation in this case between race or outcome, that it represents an unwritten rule: white guys get a break, black guys get disciplined.

So if something isn't a set law, but can be clearly seen in correlations, is it real or not? If not, then evolution isn't real either because its purely statistical model.

The police, laws, and attitudes to white people vary in this world.

My main annoyance with the term white privilege is that it's used by privileged white Americans to make them feel better about being privileged while there's none privileged white people who are still being told they're privileged and being told certain bad things don't happen to them when they blatantly do.

It's a statistical reality that in a white majority country where the police force is white you'll be treated better.

That's the privilege of being in a country with other people of your own race, the advective "white" isn't that constant condition of privilege, it's being in the majority that's the privilege.