(July 17, 2016 at 1:17 pm)Rhythm Wrote: I'm not labeling us that, we quantitatively -are-.  Yes, a white person beaten to death has white privilege.  They lived their whole life with it, despite how their life ended.  Some might even say..in this context, they squandered it.  Those many and varied privileges have already been described to you in this thread and there's no point in repeating them if you'll simply insist that someone, somewhere, doesn't have them.  None of us has everything all the time...you know.  

Your theory has a flaw...in that it's a theory to explain away a demonstrable fact.  Now personally, I flaunt my privilege at every opportunity.  Why wouldn't I?  I'm a working class guy with poor relationships with the police...and I can -still- expect better treatment than a black man who's had good relationships with the police..I'd be a moron not to take advantage.  Whenever the situation calls for it, I white the fuck up.  That's white privilege.  It doesn't actually make me feel guilty, because it;s not something I instill or maintain.  I would feel guilty, if I spent too much time trying to deny that it existed...not because I have white guilt (I don't...I was raised to be a modern night rider, lol).....but because that shit is monstrously indifferent.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dvB8-8x_y5k

You might say he squandered his white privilege by being schizophrenic, being homeless and being beaten to death by the police.

How would could it have been worse if he was black? I mean how could you know that it definitely would be worse and how could it definitely be worse than being homeless then being beaten to death?

You do understand that pointing to an example of a white person being killed by cops doesn't actually comment on whether or not white privilege exists, right?

But...since you asked......had he been black, there's a fair to middling chance that he would not have needed to be homeless and unstable...could have been out buying smokes and ended up the same. Looks like the officers are on trial too. DA's have a spotty track record of not charging cops who beat black folks to death, in case you were unaware.

(July 17, 2016 at 1:34 pm)Rhythm Wrote: You do understand that pointing to an example of a white person being killed by cops doesn't actually comment on whether or not white privilege exists, right?

But...since you asked......had he been black, there's a fair to middling chance that he would not have needed to be homeless and unstable...could have been out buying smokes and ended up the same.

That's not what I'm asking.  I'm saying here's a homeless schizophrenic white person who was bullied and beaten to death by police.

You said that some would say he squandered his white privilege and that he still had white privilege.

I'm asking what his white privilege was as a homeless schizophrenic man beaten to death by police.  Not, what is his white privilege in a hypothetical situation that he isn't homeless and schizophrenic and beaten to death by police.

Simply viewing his situation as it was, what can you point at that was his privilege or advantage over other races?

(July 17, 2016 at 1:38 pm)paulpablo Wrote: That's not what I'm asking.

Why not, why -aren;t you asking that? Because that -does- speak to white privilege.  

Quote:I'm saying here's a homeless schizophrenic white person who was bullied and beaten to death by police.

You said that some would say he squandered his white privilege and that he still had white privilege.

In his case, I think it's understandable, he didn't have the clarity of mind required to press whatever advantage he might have.  Schizos shout about demons, not their lawyers and the cops superior officer.

Quote:I'm asking what his white privilege was as a homeless schizophrenic man beaten to death by police.  Not, what is his white privilege in a hypothetical situation that he isn't homeless and schizophrenic and beaten to death by police.

Simply viewing his situation as it was, what can you point at that was his privilege or advantage over other races?

I don;t know the man..but I can see that the officers are being charged and that this, ofc, escapes your notice...and yet, in the case of the many blacks beaten to death for lesser or no reason.....this is not uniformly the case.  He's still enjoying privilege, from beyond the grave. You failed to recognize that obvious comparison in your compulsion to argue that it doesn't exist.

(July 17, 2016 at 1:40 pm)Rhythm Wrote:

(July 17, 2016 at 1:38 pm)paulpablo Wrote: That's not what I'm asking.

Why not, why -aren;t you asking that? Because that -does- speak to white privilege.  

Quote:I'm saying here's a homeless schizophrenic white person who was bullied and beaten to death by police.

You said that some would say he squandered his white privilege and that he still had white privilege.

In his case, I think it's understandable, he didn't have the clarity of mind required to press whatever advantage he might have.  Schizos shout about demons, not their lawyers and the cops superior officer.

Quote:I'm asking what his white privilege was as a homeless schizophrenic man beaten to death by police.  Not, what is his white privilege in a hypothetical situation that he isn't homeless and schizophrenic and beaten to death by police.

Simply viewing his situation as it was, what can you point at that was his privilege or advantage over other races?

I don;t know the man..but I can see that the officers are being charged and this is, ofc, escapes your notice...and yet, in the case of the many blacks beaten to death for lesser or no reason.....this is not uniformly the case.  He's still enjoying privilege, from beyond the grave.

How can he "enjoy" privilege while dead?

The officers weren't charged they were acquitted.

Acquitted means they were charged and not convicted Paul.  It won't be difficult for you to find a multitude of examples wherein the cops who beat a black guy to death, again for lesser or no reason... don't even have to go through the trouble of having their fine, fine characters impugned in the first place, lol.  Most of the time, white privilege is the expectation that things will go how they're supposed to go, how we say they should go. Fantastically low bar, right there, that demonstrates the ubiquity of discrimination and racism..if you ask me. That a black male in much less strident circumstances could not reasonably expect so much as charges and acquittal, should he find himself a corpse...that his family won't even get -that- little shred of dignity, however hollow.

Now you're arguing my choice of phrase rather than the content?  I think you might be out of gas on this one.

(July 17, 2016 at 1:47 pm)Rhythm Wrote: Acquitted means they were charged and not convicted Paul.  It won't be difficult for you to find a multitude of examples wherein the cops who beat a black guy to death, again for lesser or no reason... don't even have to go through the trouble of having their fine, fine characters impugned in the first place, lol.  Most of the time, white privilege is the expectation that things will go how they're supposed to go, how we say they should go.  Fantastically low bar, right there, that demonstrates the ubiquity of discrimination and racism..if you ask me.  That a black male in much less strident circumstances could not reasonably suspect so much as charges and acquittal, should he find himself a corpse...that his family won't even get -that- little shred of dignity, however hollow.  

Now you're arguing my choice of phrase rather than the content?  I think you might be out of gas on this one.

Ok so his privilege is that the officers were charged then aquitted, and he's enjoying this from beyond the grave.  Is this your statement and you don't want to change how you're phrasing it?  I don't mind what phrases you use to expain the context just so long as it's understandable as to what you're saying this white person's privilege was.

When I was 19 I was driving very drunk. A cop pulled me over. When he asked me to open the door and step out a bong fell out of my car. He laughed, confiscated my weed. Then he arranged a police escort and let me drive my car home. I am white. Any black folks have a similar experience?

White privilege isn't his, it's -ours-...and yes, that's a blatantly obvious example of white privilege in a scenario that you actually took pains to find and identify because you believed there wouldn't be.  The privilege of having the powers that be follow the fuck through, like they're supposed to - even if actual justice is not achieved... At least they wen't through the motions. Some privilege, eh? Now imagine how shitty it must be not to have -that- privilege, really, take a few seconds to consider it......then, if you like, continue to argue that it doesn't exist.

(July 17, 2016 at 2:00 pm)Rhythm Wrote: White privilege isn't his, it's -ours-...and yes, that's a blatantly obvious example of white privilege in a scenario that you actually took pains to find and identify because you believed there wouldn't be.  The privilege of having the powers that be at least follow the fuck through, like they're supposed to.  Some privilege, eh? Now imagine how shitty it must be not to have -that- privilege, really, take a few seconds to consider it......then, if you like, continue to argue that it doesn't exist.

But then the officers who killed Freddie Grey were aquitted.  He was black.  So the privilege of being killed by police then the police being charged and aquitted and enjoying this from beyond the grave aren't exclusively white privileges.