Oh good god.  So as long as I didn't intend to go and murder my wife when I left my house in the morning....that I murdered her later that afternoon is a mulligan?

Provided I'm a cop, I guess?  They shoot to kill.  Not to disarm, or maim, or stop you from running...as people sometimes woefully imagine. In any case, just a few pages back (think it was this thread...?)...we had a link from a blogger who was a cop in the UK for some time. Seems like people resist over there too, just....without getting shot for it. It;s pretty easy to understand why people would resist...maybe even more so if you happen to be a young black male in america. In the same vein as not expecting cops to be anything other than human, probably shouldn't expect the suspects to be anything other than human.

You see, they both make mistakes, clearly. Now, though..."mistakes" are justification for extrajudicial killing, not for the cops..mind you, they get a mulligan.

(July 21, 2016 at 6:08 pm)RoadRunner79 Wrote: Also just to note, in the recent crisis at the night club in Florida, I would not call the decision to shoot the perpetrator a "summary execution" for a "capital offense".    It's not within their authority to make that judgment.   However they are permitted to use lethal force to protect others and themselves.   Which is sometimes going to be a quick and difficult decision (and yes mistakes may be made).  

I don't think anyone sane is going to criticize the police for taking out a guy who is in the act of hosing down a crowd with weapons fire.

There's quite a bit of difference between that and shooting some poor fuck who is complying and then letting him bleed out without rendering first aid, for a traffic stop, no less.

C'mon, get real. The bolded above is not what we're talking about and I suspect you know that.

(July 21, 2016 at 5:18 pm)Rhythm Wrote: Now you're retreating into poor logic because you realize you didn't understand the words, but decided to insult me for using them regardless.  

Is jaywalking thought to be so terrible that it justifies being killed on the spot, as "resisting" is?  No, no it's not.  

Did the bus driver hit them with a bus -for the offense of jaywalking- as the officer shot the man for the offense of resisting?  No, no he did not.

Now, are you sure you just made some comment on the way -I- think?

Where did you get this shooting them for resisting arrest from?   There are instances, where you can resist arrest, and yet there would be no justification that you where possibly intending harm to someone, and could be shown in a video (running away comes to mind).  In many of these circumstances, there would be no warrant for lethal force. 

Perhaps because of the context that we where talking about; I assumed some justification that someone could be trying to get a weapon while resisting arrest and that the benefit of the doubt should go to the cop if there is any question.  This is what I have been talking about concerning resisting arrest, not open license to shoot someone for just resisting.

Technically, they don't have to resist, they can be shot for scaring a cop.  It's what we hear so often in beatings and shootings, ofc.  That they resisted. Resisting being a catch all charge for, among other things, rightly fearing for your life in the face of police who can end you on a whim. Did you not look into this -at all-?

Sack all the cops, declare martial law, and have the highly trusted and heavily armed military patrol the streets.

No more police shootings.



Just airstrikes.

(July 21, 2016 at 6:39 pm)The Valkyrie Wrote: Sack all the cops, declare martial law, and have the highly trusted and heavily armed military patrol the streets.

No more police shootings.



Just airstrikes.

Please don't give them any brilliant ideas.

Honestly........our military has more training, stricter roe, better accountability, and a more severe set of punishments for misadventure. I'd object on the simple grounds of having soldiers and av's on our city streets...except......that's where the cops live nowadays too.

(July 21, 2016 at 6:17 pm)Cthulhu Dreaming Wrote:

(July 21, 2016 at 6:08 pm)RoadRunner79 Wrote: Also just to note, in the recent crisis at the night club in Florida, I would not call the decision to shoot the perpetrator a "summary execution" for a "capital offense".    It's not within their authority to make that judgment.   However they are permitted to use lethal force to protect others and themselves.   Which is sometimes going to be a quick and difficult decision (and yes mistakes may be made).  

I don't think anyone sane is going to criticize the police for taking out a guy who is in the act of hosing down a crowd with weapons fire.

There's quite a bit of difference between that and shooting some poor fuck who is complying and then letting him bleed out without rendering first aid, for a traffic stop, no less.

C'mon, get real.  The bolded above is not what we're talking about and I suspect you know that.

I think that there are two different conversations going on here... the original general conversation, and then this incident which was linked to, in which the man was clearly complying with the officers, and trying to care for the mentally handicapped boy.  I agree, (even though I think discharging the firearm was not intentional) that the whole thing was wrong on many levels.   I do think that from what I read, you are mistaken in classifying it as just a traffic stop however. 

Not much was given in the story about the extent of his injury, or what happened afterwards when he said he was bleeding on the road.  My inclination is similar to yours, but with not much details, I don't just assume mal intent

The extent of his injury is that he was shot by a cop with a service weapon and left to bleed until they got their wits about them. I'm not sure why it would matter. Like, if we trained cops to just shoot off a toe or something.........?

(July 21, 2016 at 6:41 pm)RoadRunner79 Wrote:

(July 21, 2016 at 6:17 pm)Cthulhu Dreaming Wrote: I don't think anyone sane is going to criticize the police for taking out a guy who is in the act of hosing down a crowd with weapons fire.

There's quite a bit of difference between that and shooting some poor fuck who is complying and then letting him bleed out without rendering first aid, for a traffic stop, no less.

C'mon, get real.  The bolded above is not what we're talking about and I suspect you know that.

I think that there are two different conversations going on here... the original general conversation, and then this incident which was linked to, in which the man was clearly complying with the officers, and trying to care for the mentally handicapped boy.  I agree, (even though I think discharging the firearm was not intentional) that the whole thing was wrong on many levels.   I do think that from what I read, you are mistaken in classifying it as just a traffic stop however. 

(Aside - I don't think the discharge was intentional - nor do I think it was accidental. It was negligent.)

When I was speaking of the "traffic stop" I was speaking towards the incident that I linked to, the shooting of an innocent man in Minneapolis just last week, who was complying with the police and was shot - and left to bleed to death - for his trouble.

(July 21, 2016 at 6:41 pm)RoadRunner79 Wrote: Not much was given in the story about the extent of his injury, or what happened afterwards when he said he was bleeding on the road.  My inclination is similar to yours, but with not much details, I don't just assume mal intent

Who is assuming malicious intent? It's entirely possible that every single one of these unjustified shootings was a result of negligence. That doesn't detract from the fact that something needs to be done about it, and to date, little has. The fact remains that in the particular case under discussion today (the therapist shot in Florida) that the whitewash has already begun and it's pretty damn clear that no one is going to be accountable.

Let's be perfectly clear here that the people who need to be held accountable are not necessarily the individual officers - but could also be those who are responsible for properly training them. It's abundantly clear that there is a widespread problem with how police deal with people with mental disabilities, aside from the racial issue. Combine that with the military weaponry that cops are increasingly being issued, and this is what you get.