(July 26, 2016 at 7:51 pm)vorlon13 Wrote: Not a given, but assuming a god exists, and he/she is amenable to prayers, what assurance do we have that god would bother to hear (let alone be favorably disposed by) a prayer from an individual that is a member of any faith other than His/Her True one ??

(16 page thread, sorry I'm not going back and see if anyone else, or, LOL me, has already made that point)

In IT's nature and Word.

Merciful, long suffering, giving, compassionate, forgiving, of life, creating

It is the Will of GOD for all to simply have Faith in GOD and as such, in themselves, as GOD's creations, using the conscience and utter inner honesty to not only discern what is truly right, but in all perceivable cases, to act accordingly on such.

A faith and a belief are nothing but empty words without action.

The rest is irrelevant.

Repent not of good.

Repent of negatives(greed, anger, fear, pride (addiction of any sort is also greed).

Of course striving for such is to be the righteous case, as to actually attain to such is not for all at this time.

Peace, with humility.

Faith in selfless Unity for Good.

Quote:Omniscience in no way removes a variable allowed by that omniscience.

You just made that up.  It's okay.  All religion is just made up.

We could be witnessing the birth of a new religion.

(July 26, 2016 at 9:05 pm)popsthebuilder Wrote:

(July 26, 2016 at 7:51 pm)vorlon13 Wrote: Not a given, but assuming a god exists, and he/she is amenable to prayers, what assurance do we have that god would bother to hear (let alone be favorably disposed by) a prayer from an individual that is a member of any faith other than His/Her True one ??

(16 page thread, sorry I'm not going back and see if anyone else, or, LOL me, has already made that point)

In IT's nature and Word.

Merciful, long suffering, giving, compassionate, forgiving, of life, creating

It is the Will of GOD for all to simply have Faith in GOD and as such, in themselves, as GOD's creations, using the conscience and utter inner honesty to not only discern what is truly right, but in all perceivable cases, to act accordingly on such.

Let's say God is real, and God actually wants this.  Why do I give a shit, and more important, why am I going to spend time mumbling to the Lord when I could use my time in ways I enjoy more?

(July 26, 2016 at 8:55 pm)popsthebuilder Wrote:

(July 26, 2016 at 7:24 pm)Jörmungandr Wrote: If God is omniscient, then he knows in advance all the prayers I will make, and all the prayers that I won't make.  This is all a part of God's plan for me.  How will my praying bring me closer to God if that is not a part of his plan?  Just as prayers petitioning for things can't alter what he has already foreordained, neither will my praying affect his plan for me.  You can't escape the inexorableness of God's plan by focusing on God's plan for me.  Both are a form of petition to change God's plan.  Either God's plan for my prayer life is set or it isn't.   Either God's plan is inviolate or it isn't, including his plans for me.  It seems silly that after a life doing nothing other than what has been ordained for me, I am then supposed to be judged on what God already knew before I was born.  It seems rather callous and petty for God to judge me when I really couldn't have done other than what he had planned.  Either way, you can't escape the paradox that extra prayer to bring me closer to God has been ruled out by his omniscience.

Omniscience and an inviolate plan don't mix very well.

Omniscience in no way removes a variable allowed by that omniscience.

Also;  just because the will of GOD doesn't change, doesn't mean that in IT's omnipotence, it doesn't allow for us to change or be free from any binding.

Just because the ultimate will of GOD is ordained by GOD, doesn't mean IT can't allow for change in any way. Technically, it is feasible to claim that literally all is ordained yet  infinite variables are within this equation that ultimately has a singular answer or result. It is feasible to say that every action in a persons life at all times is both preordained and yet freely theirs to make. Every action could result in an infinite amount of other outcomes. Every step you take can change your destiny, yet that will have been your destiny from before time still. But that is from your perspective and doesn't mean GOD didn't know it or ordain it. In other words; it is not outside the will or power or knowledge of GOD to allow us learn things through experience. Just because GOD knows our will, that doesn't mean we can't change it.

This sounds like a bunch of contradictory gobbledygook. Probably because it is. Just asserting that it's feasible doesn't make it so.

(July 26, 2016 at 8:55 pm)popsthebuilder Wrote: If we knew our destiny, then it would make prayer of little necessity. GOD knowing it, does not.

Quite the contrary. God knowing our prayer activities beforehand fixes them. We will never have more or less prayer than he has foreseen.

(July 26, 2016 at 8:55 pm)popsthebuilder Wrote: Sorry, it's probably hard to follow, but we are talking about multiple infinities.
Kinda hard for me to describe.

Nonsense is often hard to make sound like sense.

(July 26, 2016 at 9:28 pm)bennyboy Wrote:

(July 26, 2016 at 9:05 pm)popsthebuilder Wrote: In IT's nature and Word.

Merciful, long suffering, giving, compassionate, forgiving, of life, creating

It is the Will of GOD for all to simply have Faith in GOD and as such, in themselves, as GOD's creations, using the conscience and utter inner honesty to not only discern what is truly right, but in all perceivable cases, to act accordingly on such.

Let's say God is real, and God actually wants this.  Why do I give a shit, and more important, why am I going to spend time mumbling to the Lord when I could use my time in ways I enjoy more?

Why would you do anything that doesn't revolve around yourself if you are the center of your focus?

Why would most people do what they know is right regardless of self? For the sake of others, obviously. Again, altruism or the sake of continued existence as a whole comes to mind.

Faith in selfless Unity for Good.

Hey Pops, welcome back! We'll never agree about religion but you're a nice guy.

(July 26, 2016 at 10:20 pm)popsthebuilder Wrote: Why would you do anything that doesn't revolve around yourself if you are the center of your focus?

Why would most people do what they know is right regardless of self? For the sake of others, obviously. Again, altruism or the sake of continued existence as a whole comes to mind.

Faith in selfless Unity for Good.

1. instinct
2. social contract
3. learned behaviors

These are the reasons I treat others with general good will. There's no such thing as an instinct for prayer, I have no social contract with God, since He offers me nothing, and I have unlearned the cultural fairy tale that would make me feel guilty if I didn't show up at church and say grace every day before dinner.

Altruism makes sense in evolutionary terms. Wasting time talking to fairy tales does not.

(July 26, 2016 at 10:53 pm)bennyboy Wrote:

(July 26, 2016 at 10:20 pm)popsthebuilder Wrote: Why would you do anything that doesn't revolve around yourself if you are the center of your focus?

Why would most people do what they know is right regardless of self? For the sake of others, obviously. Again, altruism or the sake of continued existence as a whole comes to mind.

Faith in selfless Unity for Good.

1.  instinct
2.  social contract
3.  learned behaviors

These are the reasons I treat others with general good will.  There's no such thing as an instinct for prayer, I have no social contract with God, since He offers me nothing, and I have unlearned the cultural fairy tale that would make me feel guilty if I didn't show up at church and say grace every day before dinner.

Altruism makes sense in evolutionary terms.  Wasting time talking to fairy tales does not.

Is that Lando Calrissian?