(July 27, 2016 at 6:35 pm)wallym Wrote:

(July 27, 2016 at 6:26 pm)Whateverist the White Wrote: But notice that Trump never says anything substantive ever.  It is just bragging and pissing contest.  "So and so is a bad thing."  "I'm the best."  Nothing more.

Definitely fair criticism. I think, unfortunately, the reason, is that he has no in depth answers for any of these problems.  He's just got a bunch of things he wants to do and maybe a very high level outline of how he thinks he might do it.

But in general, not many people are giving in depth answers off the cuff.  Bill Clinton was amazing at it.  

Bill was the best at it.

(July 27, 2016 at 5:35 pm)ChadWooters Wrote:

(July 27, 2016 at 5:01 pm)Aegon Wrote: I want a president who can speak above the reading level of a 7th grader. I don't think that's unreasonable.

I'm pretty sure that a man as accomplished as Trump could use big words in long sentences if he wanted. But he doesn't, maybe because it isn't important to him. How many people do you know that speak like they are writing a term paper? Only people that make their living by speaking and writing, like pundits, reporters, and politicians word-smith the hell out of everything they say. That's their product. They sell words. Trump is a developer/builder. His products are physical structures. To him words are just a means to an end. He doesn't worry about all the possible connotations and implications of what he says. People, like me, are tired of being talked at with condescension by academics, wonks, and statesmen, who talk a good game and know what everyone else should be doing but who never built anything in their lives.

Words convey ideas. If your ideas can be conveyed by such an uneducated vocabulary, what does that say about those ideas?

Further, in diplomacy, connotations and implications -- nuance -- is very important. The inability to navigate in such an environment is a strike against him at that point.

I would argue that people who talk to you are paying you a compliment in assuming that you can follow a complex thought. Why would you take offense at such a compliment? Why would you feel better about someone talking to you as if you are a seventh-grader when you are, in fact, an educated adult?

Language can in fact be a weapon, but it only intimidates those who don't have a good grasp of it. Language is complex in direct proportion to the idea being expounded (unless you're a lawyer). Authenticity does not mean veracity. One can be blunt and still be very wrong ... which is clearly the case with Trump.

(July 27, 2016 at 6:26 pm)Whateverist the White Wrote:

(July 27, 2016 at 6:22 pm)wallym Wrote: It's just a very different way of doing it.  It's one of my favorite things about Joe Biden.  I think he sped up gay marriage by 2 years because he just said what he was thinking instead of following Obama's carefully constructed script.

But notice that Trump never says anything substantive ever.  It is just bragging and pissing contest.  "So and so is a bad thing."  "I'm the best."  Nothing more.

Look, I don't totally disagree. I saw him on O'Reilly once and he's not very good at explaining much of anything. I don't know about you but I took the time to read the policies on his website. Yeah right, I said, Mexico will pay for the wall. How's that going to happen? From what I read, it at least seemes we might have actual leverage to make that the starting point for a negotiation to solve our immigration problems in partnership with Mexico. Maybe. It's different and worth thinking about. But you wouldn't know that from listening to him talk.

Trump defies all the typical ways of understanding a politician. He uses hyperbole for affect. He is after all a negotiator and starts with the outrageous request knowing full well that the final deal will not have everything he wants in it, but more than he'd have gotten if he started with a realistic request. It's a challenge to take him on his own terms.

Meh...doesn't impress me in the least. Then again, I've got enough sense to know that the Presidency isn't a position that should be held by "regular folk"; I wouldn't expect a candidate to conduct him/herself in such a manner just because it makes it easier for average dudes and random dumb asses to imagine themselves at the helm. 

Mr. Trump's simply demonstrated that he can appeal to the lowest common denominator. 
How difficult is that, really?

(July 27, 2016 at 5:45 pm)Whateverist the White Wrote: Or perhaps she is simply better educated, engaged and up on current events than the guy who tweets all day.

She's so highly educated that she even uses a private server to email classified information to her buddies. Top that Trump!

(July 27, 2016 at 6:37 pm)Thumpalumpacus Wrote: Words convey ideas. If your ideas can be conveyed by such an uneducated vocabulary, what does that say about those ideas?

That's a very elitist thing to say. Many ordinary people have exceptionally good ideas even if they cannot express them very well. One of my friends runs a multi-million dollar construction company. Smart guy. But put him on a stage and he'd collapse like a folding chair in a hurricane.

(July 27, 2016 at 6:37 pm)Thumpalumpacus Wrote: Further, in diplomacy, connotations and implications -- nuance -- is very important.

Then hire a press secretary and appoint diplomats. Trump's approach isn't much different than Khrushchev's when he banged his shoe in the UN and shouted "We will bury you!" (Yes, I just compared Trump to a totalitarian leader. Interpret that how you will). My point is that hyperbole is for public consumption. The real work is not done from podiums but in backrooms.

(July 27, 2016 at 6:52 pm)ChadWooters Wrote:

(July 27, 2016 at 6:37 pm)Thumpalumpacus Wrote: Words convey ideas. If your ideas can be conveyed by such an uneducated vocabulary, what does that say about those ideas?

That's a very elitist thing to say. Many ordinary people have exceptionally good ideas even if they cannot express them very well. One of my friends runs a multi-million dollar construction company. Smart guy. But put him on a stage and he'd collapse like a folding chair in a hurricane.

Which has nothing to do with language and everything to do with stage presence -- two very different things. But I myself have higher expectations for someone who aspires to represent me and my country on the world stage. I expect him to think before he speaks. I expect him to not fold "like a chair" when challenged to express himself on a higher level than Joe Q. Public.

If that's "elitist" to you, oh well. The world is a china shop, and it sure doesn't need one more bull ... with the attendant bullshit.

Intelligence is not enough. The ability to express oneself intelligently is also required, in my view. Can you discuss Euclidean geometry without mentioning axioms? Can you talk about nuclear-weapon usage without using words like "circular error of probability?" Can you discuss Shakespearean language without talking about early-modern English?

It isn't "elitist" to speak in terms requisite to the context of things. It's required.

Quote:

(July 27, 2016 at 6:37 pm)Thumpalumpacus Wrote: Further, in diplomacy, connotations and implications -- nuance -- is very important.

Then hire a press secretary and appoint diplomats. Trump's approach isn't much different than Khrushchev's when he banged his shoe in the UN and shouted "We will bury you!" (Yes, I just compared Trump to a totalitarian leader. Interpret that how you will). My point is that hyperbole is for public consumption. The real work is not done from podiums but in backrooms.

Do you know what happens when you send a press secretary to a summit meeting? That's right, you tender offense and sabotage the discussion by sending a subordinate.

You're a businessman, Chad. If you were wanting to let a contract for supplies and the supplier sent a flunkie not empowered to make a decision, how would that affect your view of the negotiation?

I don't think you're thinking this through.

(July 27, 2016 at 6:49 pm)A Theist Wrote:

(July 27, 2016 at 5:45 pm)Whateverist the White Wrote: Or perhaps she is simply better educated, engaged and up on current events than the guy who tweets all day.

She's  so highly educated that she even uses a private server to email classified information to her buddies. Top that Trump!

Pfft..  Trump will just tweet classified information.

(July 27, 2016 at 5:01 pm)Aegon Wrote: I want a president who can speak above the reading level of a 7th grader. I don't think that's unreasonable.

Actually, Grump talks at the level of 4th graders - apologies to the 4th graders in my life. My child told me she and the other kids talk about Grump at their daycare center. Word on the street there is that he hates Mexicans. She said "I hope I never have to see his face again" after the election.

The things that might help you -get- the job are not always the things that might help you be -good- at the job.