Trump is a clusterfuck in human form.

(August 5, 2016 at 11:05 am)Mister Agenda Wrote:

Minimalist Wrote:I'm still waiting for some libertarian to show me where the libertarian philosophy of government has ever been used in a modern state.  I stopped holding my breath long ago.

Their vision is roughly akin to the US in about 1830.

Canada, Switzerland, the USA, and New Zealand usually make the top 5 in estimates of 'most libertarian in the world'. Modern states are compromises of different views, there will never be a democracy governed by only one political view, only varying degrees of influence.

Canada, Switzerland and New Zealand all have National Health Care systems and income taxes which are anathema to libertarians.  Switzerland actually has compulsory military service so the libertards probably think they are communists!

As for the USA, compare what we are to the libertarian platform for 2016.

At least you tried.  They are looking for a post-Revolutionary War Articles of Confederation type federal government somewhere between 1790 and 1830.  The modern world is far too complex for such simplistic philosophies.

Drumpf finally admits he did not see the non-existent video he claimed he saw.

http://www.rawstory.com/2016/08/trump-ad...ney-video/

Quote:Trump admits he never saw a nonexistent Iran hostage money video

(August 4, 2016 at 12:15 pm)Crossless1 Wrote:

(August 4, 2016 at 12:08 pm)Losty Wrote: Personally, I don't like Johnson much. He is2% short of getting into the debates. He will never win.

I don't really dislike Johnson. I mean, I'd be happy to hang out and do some edibles with him. But I'm not exactly an enthusiastic political supporter. However, I may vote Libertarian in November, just to raise a third party's profile, but that depends on where my state's polls stand at the end of October. In the highly unlikely event it's close, I'll vote Clinton.

But why vote a party whose policies are "the same as the republican ones, only faster and stupider"? It's not like the US is short of right-wing fuck the poor parties to vote for.

(August 5, 2016 at 9:43 am)abaris Wrote:

(August 5, 2016 at 8:53 am)Constable Dorfl Wrote: That's what I don't get about anybody who's not a 1%er voting for a libertardian candidate, they are explicitly voting for a politician whose whole raison d'etre is to fuck them over because to use the terminology of Ayn Rand, they're "looters, if they weren't they'd be rich capitalists".

It's not as simple as that. There are certain aspects of the libertarian movement I can subscribe to. Such as civil liberties being untouchable and holy. There are others, I certainly don't subscribe to, such as leaving business to run totally unchecked.

I find that all too often with libertarians that their concept of "civil liberties" boils down to "if you're rich you can do what you want, if you're not well then sucks to be you".

(August 5, 2016 at 12:01 pm)Mister Agenda Wrote: , it include 'prebates' to address the regressive taxation issue, so those of lower means would effectively pay less or even none of the tax in practice. And while there's plenty of criticism to be directed at Rand's writings, that's a misrepresentation of her person. She had a problem with welfare, but was for anyone who worked for a living without getting a handout. There's a reasonable issue to take up with that, but it's not hyperbole about 'rich capitalists'.

You honestly think that a party whose base ideology reads as "the poor are the poor because they are evil" will actually give two fucks about helping poor people if they ever managed to get into power?

(August 5, 2016 at 2:45 am)Bella Morte Wrote:

(August 5, 2016 at 12:53 am)Alasdair Ham Wrote: Guys! Guys! Don't fight! You're both my friends!

You haz one thing in common at least! You both like this turtle!

Yeah, you're right. Shit got heated.

Apologies Thump.

No sweat, B. Sorry if I came off grouchy, for my part.

(August 5, 2016 at 2:55 pm)Constable Dorfl Wrote:

(August 4, 2016 at 12:15 pm)Crossless1 Wrote: I don't really dislike Johnson. I mean, I'd be happy to hang out and do some edibles with him. But I'm not exactly an enthusiastic political supporter. However, I may vote Libertarian in November, just to raise a third party's profile, but that depends on where my state's polls stand at the end of October. In the highly unlikely event it's close, I'll vote Clinton.

But why vote a party whose policies are "the same as the republican ones, only faster and stupider"? It's not like the US is short of right-wing fuck the poor parties to vote for.

I'd vote Libertarian because getting them onto the national stage politically is the best way to sap the GOP. I explained, possibly in a different thread, that my grudge against the post-Southern Strategy GOP is a life-long political preoccupation of mine, and promoting the one third party likely to drain support from the hoary old monster is just another way of fighting them. I am not a Libertarian and am actually opposed to most of their platform. But the enemy of my enemy . . . .

(August 5, 2016 at 3:37 pm)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:

(August 5, 2016 at 2:45 am)Bella Morte Wrote: Yeah, you're right. Shit got heated.

Apologies Thump.

No sweat, B. Sorry if I came off grouchy, for my part.

Nah, you didn't. It's all good.  

(August 5, 2016 at 3:21 pm)Constable Dorfl Wrote:

(August 5, 2016 at 9:43 am)abaris Wrote: It's not as simple as that. There are certain aspects of the libertarian movement I can subscribe to. Such as civil liberties being untouchable and holy. There are others, I certainly don't subscribe to, such as leaving business to run totally unchecked.

I find that all too often with libertarians that their concept of "civil liberties" boils down to "if you're rich you can do what you want, if you're not well then sucks to be you".

This is a gross mischaracterization.