Isn't science magnificent, Pap? As opposed to that stupid bible shit.

Isn't mitochondria in vertebrate cells endosymbiant with vertical gene transfer?

(May 11, 2011 at 6:20 pm)Minimalist Wrote: Isn't science magnificent, Pap? As opposed to that stupid bible shit.

Yep!

(May 11, 2011 at 6:39 pm)Chuck Wrote: Didn't mitochondria start out as endosymbiant with vertical gene transfer?

That’s what endosymbiotic theory says. However that happened between bacteria, and while endosymbiotic relationships are fairly common between bacteria and even between bacteria and non-vertebrates, this is thought to be a first at the cellular level in a vertebrate species.

(May 11, 2011 at 6:49 pm)popeyespappy Wrote: That’s what endosymbiotic theory says. However that happened between bacteria, and while endosymbiotic relationships are fairly common between bacteria and even between bacteria and non-vertebrates, this is thought to be a first at the cellular level in a vertebrate species.

Mitochondria has its own DNA and exist in most cells in each vertebrate, The process of mitochondria DNA transfer from one generation of vertebrate to the next occurs outside normal sexual reproduction of the vertebrate, So Mitochrondria appear to fit the definition of vertical gene transfer of endosymbiant in a vertebrate.

In fact it is the vertical DNA transfer of mitochondria that makes possible the genetic dating techniques that showed us our most recent common female ancestor about 100,000 years before the christian god got around to creating her.

(May 11, 2011 at 8:47 pm)Chuck Wrote: Mitochondria has its own DNA and exist in most cells in each vertebrate, The process of mitochondria DNA transfer from one generation of vertebrate to the next occurs outside normal sexual reproduction of the vertebrate, So Mitochrondria appear to fit the definition of vertical gene transfer of endosymbiant in a vertebrate.

In fact it is the vertical DNA transfer of mitochondria that makes possible the genetic dating techniques that showed us our most recent common female ancestor about 100,000 years before the christian god got around to creating her.

Yes, that is correct. The difference is that mitochondria are no longer considered to be endosymbiotic organisms but an integral part of the host cell. Mitochondria, probably a close relative of rickettsiales, became integrated at the cellular level around 2 billion years ago while the host cell was still a single cell organism. At least that is what endosymbiotic theory says. While this type of relationship is common in bacteria and somewhat less so in invertebrates, the integration of a new symbiotic organism with a vertebrate has never been observed until now. The immune system of vertebrates usually keeps this type of relationship from developing. Our mitochondria have been in place since the time of the common ancestor of all eukaryotic cells. At that time an immune system had not yet evolved to impede the integration.

Yes yes, but were they able to figure out when Adam and Eve gave the salamander it's name??