But -- but -- it's a campaign promise!

(August 19, 2016 at 1:16 pm)Bella Morte Wrote: Yes, I am informed on what you can go to prison for across the pond. America is vastly different compared to Europe, so what?

People often have a go at me for saying how primitive and backward-thinking the United States is. What I find interesting is that Americans are completely ignorant to the criticism that they receive on a daily basis. On statement that gets repeated by politicians here, especially during an election, is "we don't want to be like America". And that's across a range of political issues.

The USA is stuck in 18th and 19th century mentality, beliefs, and political wisdom. In 2014, the USA ranked 5th highest number of death penalties carried out, with 35 people executed (source- Amnesty International). Belarus is the only other Western country that practises the death penalty (Turkey has said that they might reinstate it, but as of now have not done so). The criminalisation and prosecution of prostitution is also unbelievably primitive.

Prison rates are here. From the link you will see that the USA has a prison rate of 693 per 100,000. European countries have a median prison rate of about 120-130 per 100,000.

There is a wonderful list here of petty crimes that have people in prison for life in the USA (with further info here). In fact if that's not bad enough, OJ Simpson was sentenced to die in prison in 2008 for a petty crime (essentially he and his friends armed themselves and stormed a hotel room to recover items that were stolen from his storage shed/s). It's a crime that would normally not receive anything greater than a slap on the wrist or a couple of months in gaol. It is likely that the judge's prejudice against OJ (she might believe he 'got away with murder') led to the extreme sentencing. I use the word prejudice because in the eyes of the law he was innocent of that crime, for all we know the real murder might be still out there living it large. It's not justice any way you look at it, and there are plenty of examples like that in the USA where people have clearly been over-sentenced all due to prejudice.

Not -all- due to prejudice.  You're forgetting the profit, a much more effective motivator.

(August 19, 2016 at 3:01 pm)Rhythm Wrote: You aren't honestly referring to campaign ad copy as though it made any of the previously mentioned bits go away, are you?  Yes..that's what they say.  That's -why- it's so strange to see so much prison lobby money n their campaign, and to see the very organization connected to that money be among the providers who will get an extension..rather than being among those phased out as per the justice depts recent release.

If they started to -do- what their ad copy promises...it would be a 180 degree turn (as the helpful gentleman from the prison group in the video I linked mentioned...they are truly a bipartisan operation, both sides of the aisle have been good to them, and so have the last three administrations.  I doubt that it's so important to anyone that they would lose votes over it, in this campaign, if they had to alter or minimize the importance of that campaign promise in the course of the general election, or afterward.

If its so fucking meaningless why were Bernie's fans losing their shit over the platform?  Are you suggesting they are stupid?

(August 23, 2016 at 6:57 pm)Aractus Wrote: People often have a go at me for saying how primitive and backward-thinking the United States is. What I find interesting is that Americans are completely ignorant to the criticism that they receive on a daily basis.

No, we have a 'go' at you because you love to paint all Americans with that broad brush of yours(just as you've done here), which is the hallmark of someone with poor critical thinking skills, btw.  We have a go at you because you speak as if you're an expert on how Americans think and behave from all the way on the other side of the planet.  We have a go at you because you speak of us as one giant hive mind with absolutely no dissent or speaking out about our problems(ironically, you do this in a thread where an American is pointing out one of the problems in America).  We have a go at you because you love to criticize Americans while refusing to admit your own country has any problems.

We're not all ignorant of the criticisms we receive, but don't let facts get in the way of your 'holier-than-thou,' broad-brush hate-fest.

I'd add the phrase "smug condescension" to that, FNM.

Quote:In 2014, the USA ranked 5th highest number of death penalties carried out, with 35 people executed (source- Amnesty International).

It's silly to get hung up on that, Danny.  Why in 2014 alone 1,111 people were killed by the cops with out all that messy, costly and inconvenient trial stuff.

http://www.killedbypolice.net/kbp2014.html

(August 23, 2016 at 8:32 pm)Minimalist Wrote:

(August 19, 2016 at 3:01 pm)Rhythm Wrote: You aren't honestly referring to campaign ad copy as though it made any of the previously mentioned bits go away, are you?  Yes..that's what they say.  That's -why- it's so strange to see so much prison lobby money n their campaign, and to see the very organization connected to that money be among the providers who will get an extension..rather than being among those phased out as per the justice depts recent release.

If they started to -do- what their ad copy promises...it would be a 180 degree turn (as the helpful gentleman from the prison group in the video I linked mentioned...they are truly a bipartisan operation, both sides of the aisle have been good to them, and so have the last three administrations.  I doubt that it's so important to anyone that they would lose votes over it, in this campaign, if they had to alter or minimize the importance of that campaign promise in the course of the general election, or afterward.

If its so fucking meaningless why were Bernie's fans losing their shit over the platform?  Are you suggesting they are stupid?

No more or less silly than the people who get hung up on it for having been stressed in Clinton's campaign as a way to bring them back into the fold.  Perhaps they should have asked why Bernie voted -for- the very laws that formed the basis of the current for profit prison system......that made them a profitable opportunity in the first place...or why he voted -against- the demilitarization of police. We could have strangled all this shit in it;s crib, but he...like all the rest, were too busy nursing that baby when it counted. Now it's bigger than either party or any candidate, too big to fail, in all likelihood.

(August 23, 2016 at 9:52 pm)Minimalist Wrote:

Quote:In 2014, the USA ranked 5th highest number of death penalties carried out, with 35 people executed (source- Amnesty International).

It's silly to get hung up on that, Danny.  Why in 2014 alone 1,111 people were killed by the cops with out all that messy, costly and inconvenient trial stuff.

http://www.killedbypolice.net/kbp2014.html

In some portions of the US, police kill more people than criminals do, natonally..police kill more people than terrorists do, and globally....police kill civilians at a greater rate than our soldiers die deployed to warzones.

The land of the free...the home of the brave. 10-1 says we respond to this, if/when we finally cop to it...by instituting for-profit police forces, you know...-above the board, rather than our current for profit policing systems that are below or beyond the board.

"911, state the nature of your payment method, please"

(August 24, 2016 at 7:10 am)Rhythm Wrote:

(August 23, 2016 at 8:32 pm)Minimalist Wrote: If its so fucking meaningless why were Bernie's fans losing their shit over the platform?  Are you suggesting they are stupid?

No more or less silly than the people who get hung up on it for having been stressed in Clinton's campaign as a way to bring them back into the fold.  Perhaps they should have asked why Bernie voted -for- the very laws that formed the basis of the current for profit prison system......that made them a profitable opportunity in the first place...or why he voted -against- the demilitarization of police.  We could have strangled all this shit in it;s crib, but he...like all the rest, were too busy nursing that baby when it counted.  Now it's bigger than either party or any candidate, too big to fail, in all likelihood.

You know, people ARE allowed to change their minds after accumulating more facts.  In some circles the ability to do that is considered a positive.  I have no doubt that the lobbyists for the industry sold a vision of lower costs and better service because 'murrica has this asinine idea that the private sector can always do things better and cheaper than government.  In many cases they cannot.

We now have a solid record of futility with the private prison system to make determinations on.

If you bought a car that turned out to be a piece of shit would you keep it because the original advertisement you saw had a hot blonde in it?