I go to Halden high school and when we had religion for the very first time, the lecturer at the end of the class very subtly shared the gospel with all of us and this is not even a private school, it's a state school. I figured I need to challenge this guy so I anonymously sent him an e-mail asking him how he knows that the Bible is true and he said because of Ivan Panin's discovery of the heptadic structure. I never heard about this before but smells like BS nevertheless I need an answer

Erm yeah, it's total BS.

http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/panin1.htm

It's numerology. You can find whatever patterns you like if you're willing to be totally flexible with the rules, given a large enough document. It would work just as well with any old crap. It proves absolutely nothing.

Ultimately it's an argument from incredulity anyway. How could the authors have known all this crap? How could they have inserted these codes? They didn't, but even if they did, we don't know how or why.

Ugh...numerology.  Tell him that given enough mathematical gymnastics you can find similar patterns and "hidden messages" in any significantly large text.  For instance, Muslims claim the same thing about the Quran. But I'll bet he thinks that's nonsensical garbage, right?

I seem to recall reading that someone applied this same rigorous methodology to Moby Dick with interesting results, though I don't care enough to find a link for it. Your teacher sounds like a real genius.

It's funny how there's so much evidence, when all that is required is faith, huh. Make your mind up much?

(August 29, 2016 at 10:31 am)robvalue Wrote: Erm yeah, it's total BS.

http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/panin1.htm

It's numerology. You can find whatever patterns you like if you're willing to be totally flexible with the rules, given a large enough document. It would work just as well with any old crap. It proves absolutely nothing.

Ultimately it's an argument from incredulity anyway. How could the authors have known all this crap? How could they have inserted these codes? They didn't, but even if they did, we don't know how or why.

telling him "it's numerology, end of story" would be equivalent to me stating I have no idea I give up -- got any analysis of another book that shows the same?Quran would be the best lol, cause that would blow his little bubble and make him consider Allah, or any way I can demonstrate that it's only him giving pure chance a divine conclusion? I'm not looking to give PROOF that he's wrong, not only say it's numerology you are wrong, he would write me off

Ah, numerology. It's about as legit as astrology, which means it's a complete fantasy. It's also yet another example of confirmation bias.

People see patterns in everything. We're very good at inventing them. You can do the same thing with Lord of the Rings or Harry Potter.

Oh, look, they found the same crap in Moby Dick.

ETA: As now see Crossless1 mentioned.

(August 29, 2016 at 10:27 am)GTR-1 Wrote: I go to Halden high school and when we had religion for the very first time, the lecturer at the end of the class very subtly shared the gospel with all of us and this is not even a private school, it's a state school. I figured I need to challenge this guy so I anonymously sent him an e-mail asking him how he knows that the Bible is true and he said because of Ivan Panin's discovery of the heptadic structure. I never heard about this before but smells like BS nevertheless I need an answer

Just curious: how exactly did your teacher share the "Good News"?

Quran code

Also, the fact that the conclusion isn't what he thinks it is, is relevant. As I said, it's an argument from incredulity.