Need an argument answered

[ScienceAf]

Quran code

No joke. I gagged a little.

[robvalue]

Lovely

These are all victims of the sharpshooter fallacy.

[abaris]

It's numerology. You can find whatever patterns you like if you're willing to be totally flexible with the rules, given a large enough document. It would work just as well with any old crap. It proves absolutely nothing.

What makes it even more ridiculous is the obvious question: What bible edition in what language from which time and denomination?

[Minimalist]

Old news and your teacher is a superstitious shithead.

http://users.cecs.anu.edu.au/~bdm/dilugim/moby.html

[Angrboda]

Erm yeah, it's total BS.

http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/panin1.htm

It's numerology. You can find whatever patterns you like if you're willing to be totally flexible with the rules, given a large enough document. It would work just as well with any old crap. It proves absolutely nothing.

Ultimately it's an argument from incredulity anyway. How could the authors have known all this crap? How could they have inserted these codes? They didn't, but even if they did, we don't know how or why.

telling him "it's numerology, end of story" would be equivalent to me stating I have no idea I give up -- got any analysis of another book that shows the same?Quran would be the best lol, cause that would blow his little bubble and make him consider Allah, or any way I can demonstrate that it's only him giving pure chance a divine conclusion? I'm not looking to give PROOF that he's wrong, not only say it's numerology you are wrong, he would write me off

What exactly do you hope to accomplish with this argument with him? Odds are that he'll blow off any counter-argument, no matter how good or compelling. So, what do you want from this?

[Homeless Nutter]

telling him "it's numerology, end of story" would be equivalent to me stating I have no idea I give up -- got any analysis of another book that shows the same?Quran would be the best lol, cause that would blow his little bubble and make him consider Allah, or any way I can demonstrate that it's only him giving pure chance a divine conclusion? I'm not looking to give PROOF that he's wrong, not only say it's numerology you are wrong, he would write me off

Here's an example of someone using Panin's method on a line from "The Raven", by E. A. Poe.
http://users.cecs.anu.edu.au/~bdm/dilugim/poe.html

The following example is an expansion of one first presented on USENET by Charles Culver of Computers for Christ.
For this example, we will use numerical values for English letters assigned using the same pattern as used for Arabic, Greek and Hebrew.
 A=1   B=2   C=3   D=4   E=5   F=6   G=7   H=8   I=9
 J=10  K=20  L=30  M=40  N=50  O=60  P=70  Q=80  R=90
 S=100 T=200 U=300 V=400 W=500 X=600 Y=700 Z=800

We will analyse the famous first line of Poe's classic poem "The Raven":
  Once upon a midnight dreary, while I pondered, weak and weary

---

• There are 7x7 letters.
  
  
• The first and last words sum to 202x7, of which the first letters contribute 80x7.
  
  
• The consonants in words starting with a consonant sum to 537x7.
  
  
• The consonants in words ending with a consonant sum to 485x7, of which 192x7 comes from the odd length words and 293x7 from the even length words.
  
  
• The consonants in words 2,4,6,8,10 sum to 177x7.
  
  
• There are 7 words ending with consonants.
  
  
• There are 3x7 consonants in words of even length.
  
  
• Considering words 1,3,5,7,9,11:
  
  • There are 3x7 letters.
    
  • The even (2,4,6..) letters in each word total 138x7.
    
  • The last letters of each word total 205x7.
    
  • The first and last letters of each word total 51x7x7.
    
• Considering the verb "pondered":
  • The first letter has value 10x7.
    
  • The vowels have total value 10x7.
    

Here's a comparison of Panin's analysis of a fragment of the bible, compared with that of another numerologist, both allegedly finding the magical patterns and supposedly proving godly inspiration, despite the texts they worked on being different. That shows, that their methods are arbitrary and unscientific.
http://users.cecs.anu.edu.au/~bdm/dilugi...rmack.html

Each of the two authors gave multiple features of 7 that do not exist in the text used by the other.
In order to produce these patterns, they modified the text using the many variant readings that appear in old manuscripts. In addition to this deliberate cooking of the data, they presented some of the vast number of features of 7 that appear in any text by pure chance.

The only logical conclusion we can draw from this sorry episode is that neither author achieved anything beyond self-delusion.

And here's how Panin simply doctored some of the text, in order to suit his patterns.
http://users.cecs.anu.edu.au/~bdm/dilugi..._mark.html

Also - here's some of the "inspired predictions", that numerology can squeeze out of "Moby Dick", by H. Melville.
http://users.cecs.anu.edu.au/~bdm/dilugim/moby.html

[robvalue]

Stuff like numerology is just a rationlisation. He most likely believes it because he thinks the book is magic, because he's been trained to think that. And because of "personal experiences" which he's attributes to his indoctrinated stories. Of course, he is very unlikely to admit it and might not even be aware of exactly why he believes it.

He makes himself feel better about it by finding pseudo-scientific explanations. It's the same with almost every religious person I have debated with.

[This is all extremely general. Of course I can't know for sure what his deal is.]

[Losty]

Hello

Welcome to AF

[account_inactive]

We've got this awesome little thing called the introduction section, but anyway welcome to the forums. Help yourself to the complimentary tea.

[Nihilist Virus]

Tell him to knock that shit off in public schools. Tell him private Christian schools are the place for that nonsense and if he doesn't back down then just contact ffrf.org