Fuck, I dunno.
Can't we all just get along?

(October 10, 2016 at 11:01 pm)paulpablo Wrote:

(October 10, 2016 at 1:34 pm)EruptedCarcassBloat Wrote: So I've been seeing a lot of these sort of "anti politically correct" people within the atheist community itself. Often they're against feminists and "social justice warriors" in particular. It's peculiar to me that this phenomena is so popular, because it seems to operate under the moniker of being a skeptical point of view. These points of view though are actually so counter productive, but it really had me thinking about it for a long time before I came to this final conclusion. This is part of the reason there is a cultural phenomenon of people throwing around the words "politically correct" and "social justice warrior" as a derogatory term. 

Perhaps none of you interact with people like that, but there's people out there who think this way in large numbers, just look at the rise of Donald Trump. There's been a documented phenomenon in public schools, where bullying is on the rise because of people like Donald Trump's anti "politically correct" rhetoric. This is the tactic that these people use, they mock people in order to make their points, they try to make you cringe at the people they make their videos about. Just look at atheist channels on youtube, their videos aren't really focused on being informative, the general attitude in the videos is a derisive, mocking attitude. 

What this attitude of mocking people does is normalize bullying behavior in cultures. It's one of the reasons why I have seen people use the word autism, I was diagnosed with aspergers, and then am told that I am being an "sjw" when I tell them that it's offensive to me. And look at the people actually making these youtube videos, they probably make a lot of money off of it, people like The Amazing Atheist and Sargon of Akkad actually make a living off of it. There's people who are profiting off of hate mongering, fear mongering, and making a living off of mocking and bullying people's vulnerabilities; normalizing that behavior.

There's a great debate that exists on the internet of a prominent anti social justice warrior commentator called Sargon of Akkad, between someone who actually studied feminism and is a feminist. I forget exactly what the video was called, but she points out how all his arguments are basically just internet sensationalism which has nothing to do with what feminism is actually all about. These tactics are really no different from the reasoning that someone would use to condone any sort of hate speech. Instead of trying to understand the thing they deride, they mock it. This leads to a culture of bullies, a culture which, instead of being sensitive to other points of view, mocks and ridicules. With no good logic besides hostile polarizing attitudes.

The word Autism is offensive to you?

It's not the word, it's how it's used. "Autist" is an insult thrown around constantly on the Internet to describe people who do something embarrassing or socially inept. If you can't see how that's offensive, especially to somebody on the spectrum, then you're part of the problem.

This is coming from somebody who is generally against the "SJW movement"

(October 11, 2016 at 9:06 am)ChadWooters Wrote: Boo hoo hoo. Now people are offended when they have been labeled SJW's because of their totalitarian impulses to unilaterally declare that some topics cannot be discussed, certain assumptions cannot be questioned, and some lines of inquiry should never be pursued.

There was a time when today's leftist/liberal Puritans would have defended Neo-Nazis marching through Skokie, Illinois. That Jewish neighborhood was told by the ACLU to suck it up in the name of free speech. There was a time when Leftists demanded that public dollars be spent on artworks like "Piss Christ" and BDSM photography of Mapplethorpe. Leftists had no problem offending Catholics and Evangelicals.

SJW and political correctness is every bit as hypocritical today as the Right was back then. At the end of the day they are all listening to Howard Stern and Bill Maher in private.

I love Bill Maher lol. Bill Maher, Secular Talk, and The Young Turks are great. Secular talk is probably my favorite though, Kyle is always on point.

I just looked up Mapplethorpe, and that's fricken awesome lol. I always admired piss christ. All that stuff like Dadaism, the beat movement, early industrial music, all that stuff is a gold mine of cultural subversion, really pushing against the status quo. It's extremely progressive art.

I think it's a false dichotomy, comparing left wing people to nazis. They stand for totally different things, and in fact the left wing stands for freedom more than the right wing does. The left wing is so different from nazis, it's unbelievable. They stand for literally everyone, whereas the right wing only stands for you if you look, act, dress, behave, and were born a certain way. I think a couple issues where it's apparent to me that the left wing is about freedom more than the opposition, is they're the ones that would stand for a woman's right to choose, and they're the ones that would stand for gay people getting married. They're the ones that would push for black rights, trans rights, all the rights of marginalized people. I think you have a complete opposite idea than I do of what the left wing is about.

Thanks for defending my point about the word autist though, I really appreciate that.

Both sides have their extremes, do not for a moment pretend that's not the case. I identify far more with left-wing ideology than I do the right (though a few points of theirs have merit IMO) but I recognise the fact that the left has blood on its hands as well throughout history.

It's dangerous territory to start tarring things with the same brush like that.

(October 11, 2016 at 10:03 am)Iroscato Wrote: Both sides have their extremes, do not for a moment pretend that's not the case. I identify far more with left-wing ideology than I do the right (though a few points of theirs have merit IMO) but I recognise the fact that the left has blood on its hands as well throughout history.

It's dangerous territory to start tarring things with the same brush like that.

That's my problem with it. People start painting with a broad brush stroke like that, when everyone in any category thinks differently. People think that there's one, militaristic, uniform idea that all people on the left wing have, it's just not true. You can't generalize the left wing just because you saw some video of anita sarkeesian, or some video of someone getting angry because they used the wrong word or something. 

It's just a waste of time, and really the point I was trying to make when I made this thread, are the people who propagate that point of view, the myopic one, are basically making people hate sjws, and it increases divisiveness, and increases hatred against progressives and minorities. Just look at anyone who tries to say something progressive, they say "OH, NOW YOU WANT TO TAKE AWAY MY RIGHTS OF FREEDOM OF SPEECH! YEAH I KNOW YOU LIBERALS!" Just at the mention of something that sounds progressive. 

Then you have people thinking it's so funny to say 'HAHA ARE YOU TRIGGERED? OH MY GOD THE STUPID SJW IS TRIGGERED! BTW THERE'S ONLY 2 GENDERS, FAGGOT! TRIGGERED? TRIGGERED? TRIGGERED? TRIGGERED? HAHA FUCKING AUTIST!"

What, you thought getting 7 billion people to agree on anything was going to be possible? We are an opinionated, discordant, impulsive, stubborn species, the thing we are literally best at it is disagreeing with each other.

My advice would be to not get so worked up over things you cannot control (though I'll admit I'm not perfect at following this, but I've certainly slowed the advance of grey hairs over the last couple of years )

(October 11, 2016 at 10:22 am)Iroscato Wrote: What, you thought getting 7 billion people to agree on anything was going to be possible? We are an opinionated, discordant, impulsive, stubborn species, the thing we are literally best at it is disagreeing with each other.

My advice would be to not get so worked up over things you cannot control (though I'll admit I'm not perfect at following this, but I've certainly slowed the advance of grey hairs over the last couple of years )

Tell that to anti sjws.

No, fuck this hyper-PC bullshit.  There's a reason that freedom of speech is in the first fucking amendment.  We've gone way overboard with policing what people say, and all we're doing is forcing each other to cater people's insecurities.  These days it's not even good enough to avoid saying something bigoted.  If someone else even perceives it to be bigoted, regardless of whether it is or not, you'll be attacked and forced to apologize.  Ask Giuliana Rancic(Google it).

Sure, people like to jump on the anti-SJW bandwagon and use it to justify bigotry, but that doesn't take away from the fact that many people on the left have taken a totalitarian approach to regulating speech.  It's part of why I feel the need to qualify telling people I'm a liberal with "not that kind of liberal."  It reminds me of certain students freaking out at a university because someone wrote a pro-Trump sentence in chalk on the sidewalk and demanding the administration do something about it.  Sure, Trump is a total douchebag, but I thought we had freedom of speech in this country?  

I also find all of the energy being spent on policing speech totally offensive.  There are little kids being bombed in Syria, but people are getting up in arms over others using the wrong terminology.  Talk about fucked up priorities.

"I do not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it."  - Evelyn Beatrice Hall

(October 11, 2016 at 10:24 am)EruptedCarcassBloat Wrote:

(October 11, 2016 at 10:22 am)Iroscato Wrote: What, you thought getting 7 billion people to agree on anything was going to be possible? We are an opinionated, discordant, impulsive, stubborn species, the thing we are literally best at it is disagreeing with each other.

My advice would be to not get so worked up over things you cannot control (though I'll admit I'm not perfect at following this, but I've certainly slowed the advance of grey hairs over the last couple of years )

Tell that to anti sjws.

No thanks, it's far too stressful.

See? That's why I don't do it.

---

(October 11, 2016 at 10:24 am)Faith No More Wrote: No, fuck this hyper-PC bullshit.  There's a reason that freedom of speech is in the first fucking amendment.  We've gone way overboard with policing what people say, and all we're doing is forcing each other to cater people's insecurities.  These days it's not even good enough to avoid saying something bigoted.  If someone else even perceives it to be bigoted, regardless of whether it is or not, you'll be attacked and forced to apologize.  Ask Giuliana Rancic(Google it).

Sure, people like to jump on the anti-SJW bandwagon and use it to justify bigotry, but that doesn't take away from the fact that many people on the left have taken a totalitarian approach to regulating speech.  It's part of why I feel the need to qualify telling people I'm a liberal with "not that kind of liberal."  It reminds me of certain students freaking out at a university because someone wrote a pro-Trump sentence in chalk on the sidewalk and demanding the administration do something about it.  Sure, Trump is a total douchebag, but I thought we had freedom of speech in this country?  

I also find all of the energy being spent on policing speech totally offensive.  There are little kids being bombed in Syria, but people are getting up in arms over others using the wrong terminology.  Talk about fucked up priorities.

"I do not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it."  - Evelyn Beatrice Hall

Oh look, another person following sensationalist news stories designed to give you a warped perspective of liberals. There's no totalitarian progressive regime.