(October 24, 2016 at 2:39 am)Jörmungandr Wrote:

(October 24, 2016 at 1:24 am)Thena323 Wrote: I believe the majority of pedophiles will likely act on their urges, if the opportunity presents itself and they're physically capable of doing so. I'd sure like to imagine that many of them lead quiet, unassuming lives, and continually deny themselves the sexual gratification they crave out of their own free will and volition...but, that doesn't seem realistic to me. The sheer amount of child sex abuse that takes place seems to indicate otherwise.

I do understand the difference between a pedophile and a child molester, technically. In my view, however, the difference is more a matter of semantics/legal necessity, than it is a realistic difference that has any practical application. Most people wouldn't dare leave their children in the care of a law-abiding pedophile, who's sworn off diddling kids: Even in the most dire of emergencies. 

There's a reason for that, I believe.

In the real world, people understand just how prevalent childhood sexual abuse actually is. They reasonably conclude that a pedophile is much more likely to be a child molester who hasn't been caught offending, rather than a person with an "uncontrollable urge" to f_ck kids, who happens to be kind enough to never, ever, ever act on it

Do you have anything other than your opinion in support of these claims?  As noted above, not all molesters are pedophiles.  

Oh, no..if you fuck and molest kids in addition to adults, you're definitely a pedophile. Not exclusively of course. 
I recognize that.

A clinician will assign a special term to your condition, no doubt. 
Something all-encompassing. 

Quote:It seems unreasonable to draw the inference that the epidemic of child sexual abuse says anything about the prevalence of non-offending pedophiles.  That just seems like a big non sequitur.

And, no, I don't have any data that could hope to pass muster here...at the moment. For now, it's just the knowledge that child sexual abuse is a vastly underreported crime in the US and abroad, plus a lifetime of anecdotal accounts from countless personal interactions with individuals that corroborate that fact. And the reasonable inference that if the crimes aren't being reported....then the perpetrators aren't being reported, either.

Who are the non-offending pedophiles, again? Those who simply identify as such in study? 
Or those who've never been charged or convicted?

I'm no expert so I wouldn't know the most effective treatments. But at the very least, kindness and understanding go a long way. The opportunity for whatever treatment there is has to be better than nothing, plus the support of friends and society. If you think all of that wouldn't possibly ever do anything, you're letting your hatred affect your judgement.

I still don't understand the problem. There are innocent paedophiles out there, and we have no idea who they are. We have two choices. We either let them come forward so we can support them, to help them in whatever the best ways available are to reduce the chance they will offend; or we tell them all en masse that if we find out who they are, even if they've done nothing wrong, they'll be ostracised.

Which is the better plan? In the second instance, none of them are going to come forward. None will get any treatment, they'll be left to fight the whole problem alone. We won't know about them until the proportion that can't take it anymore and offend get caught. Each one of those that did has gone undetected because of our attitudes and might not have offended if they received treatment and support. We haven't made the people disappear by scaring them into silence.

What is to be gained by forcing them to remain secret? Because that is all such attitudes are doing. Please tell me one other thing these attitudes do. I'm taking for granted we already use sensible precautions regarding the safety of our kids. We're now discussing the unknown, as-yet innocent paedophiles out there. What is your message to them? Considering they can't help it, and most people have convicted them before they've done anything wrong, how do you think they feel? Just a reminder that they are humans also. There's nothing inherently wrong with any desire. We don't lock up everyone because they might do something. What we are doing is counterproductive; I'd like to see anyone explain how it isn't. They will go ahead an apply for a job as a teacher, and get it. We'll be none the wiser. It's just they are now unsupported and untreated, and as such, more likely to offend.

It appears to me some people consider the only two options here are maximum hatred and ostracization of all paedophiles, or else we invite them into our homes to fuck our kids. Let's look at reality instead.

All child molesters are pedophiles (or not necessarily I guess, it's possible to rape or molest someone without being attracted to them at all... purely for a power thing. And in fact rape and molestation are both predominantly about power): but not all pedophiles are child molesters.

I think all sexual attraction is genetic so I suppose I do think pedophiles (as opposed to child molesters) are born that way.

Preventing the suffering of children is what matters most and if getting pedophiles help and allowing them to be accepted more means less of those pedophiles become child molesters then in theory that's a good thing.

However in practice I don't think it could ever happen. Society would never accept pedophiles because far too many people would always see them as exactly the same thing as child molesters.

(October 23, 2016 at 10:42 pm)Iroscato Wrote: I've thought for years that paedophiles should be able to seek out confidential, no-strings-attached advice and therapy to deal with their urges. That way the temptation to act on them is dramatically reduced, and they can live an otherwise normal life without fear of retribution from society. I don't believe they 'choose' to feel the way they do, nor do I think they should be punished for thoughtcrime.

I agree with this but I don't think it could ever happen.

I found numbers for Germany. An estimated 250.000 men are pedophiles. Out of a population of give or take 80 millions.

The problem isn't that every pedophile acts on his impulses. As a heterosexual man I don't go out molesting and raping every woman striking my fancy. And gays don't go out molesting and raping persons of their own gender. It's the same with pedophiles. As has been said, most won't even be noticed.

But there's another side to the problem. We all consume porn in one way or the other. There's no denying that. For pedophiles consuming porn is in itself a crime, since someone has molested or raped minors to produce the material for their gratification.

(October 24, 2016 at 8:01 am)abaris Wrote: [...]But there's another side to the problem. We all consume porn in one way or the other. There's no denying that. For pedophiles consuming porn is in itself a crime, since someone has molested or raped minors to produce the material for their gratification.

Except there is a whole industry of "teen porn", where particularly youthful looking adults pretend to be teenagers, sometimes using computer graphics, to achieve more convincing effects. Then there are also kinds of porn, which don't involve "actors" at all, like animation, video games, or written stories.

 It certainly doesn't seem like any minors are directly hurt in making those kinds of porn, unless we decide, that it displays some sort of societal approval of sexual abuse of minors and encourages potential offenders. But in that case - the same could be true about all sorts of pornography and in fact many other forms of entertainment, like violent video games, or slasher movies, which allow consumers to indulge in fantasies of socially unacceptable behavior.

Am I confused about the definitions? I always thought that a pedophile was someone attracted to children before puberty not someone attracted to teenagers.

(October 24, 2016 at 9:31 am)Losty Wrote: Am I confused about the definitions? I always thought that a pedophile was someone attracted to children before puberty not someone attracted to teenagers.

Here's a few terms.

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/infantophile
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hebephilia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ephebophilia

However, the term paedophile (or pedophile for you yanks) is used to describe sexual attraction to anyone under the age of consent, regardless of their age.

(October 24, 2016 at 9:31 am)Losty Wrote: Am I confused about the definitions? I always thought that a pedophile was someone attracted to children before puberty not someone attracted to teenagers.

It is. That's why the "teen" porn probably doesn't cut it.

(October 23, 2016 at 11:34 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote:

(October 23, 2016 at 9:29 pm)Macoleco Wrote: First of all, I want to make clear I am not a pedophile, nor I am an expert in the topic. I honestly do not know if it is considered a psychiatric or psychologic disorder, but I believe you are born that way, except maybe for some extreme cases of people who have been abused.

I just want to put my opinion out there, because I believe this is a taboo topic nobody ever discusses.

Society usually hates pedophiles, and wants to see them crushed and dead. This is one of the reasons I believe pedophiles dont seek for professional help or help from relatives. They are afraid of being judged. 

This is why I believe that governments should invest in campaigns, informing to the general public what pedophilia is, and motivating pedophiles to seek for help. 

Now, some of you may be thinking "Protecting kids is the main priority", and it is. If you help pedophiles control their disorder (since we cant cure it as of right now), chances are they will not abuse kids. Therefore, the kids will be safe too.

Have you ever wondered, how many people you have met through your life have been pedophiles? Maybe they are even married, with kids. I think we all have, we just dont know about it. Maybe even some of your friends.

What do you think?  

People who are attracted to kids don't choose to be that way. Whether they are born that way, or whether they developed it due to environmental factors in their early life, or whether it's a little of both, we do not know. We only know that they do not choose to have this attraction. 

They can, however, choose not to *act* on it. Whether that be by looking at child porn, statutory rape, or full on rape, I can imagine it can't be easy to completely suppress such a strong compulsions. I don't think it is something they can do on their own without intensive psychological care, which they should seek. 

People who are attracted to children, and who, instead of acting on it, come forward to seek help instead, should be applauded for doing the difficult yet moral thing. Not shamed for an attraction they have no control over.

Check this guy out, he can't even control himself on tv.