(November 10, 2016 at 2:19 pm)Mathilda Wrote: I feel that Germany is one of the countries least likely to turn to fascism because they have experience of it in living memory.

Currently it is. But that's largely Merkel's doing. I never imagined I would say that about any conservative politician, but she's one of the select few cool headed leaders with a humanistic worldview. If the likes of Seehofer or some other idiot from Merkel's own party were to take over, all bets are off in Germany too, given the already strong AFD.

(November 10, 2016 at 2:06 pm)abaris Wrote:

(November 10, 2016 at 1:50 pm)Aroura Wrote: I know people lost their homes and jobs.  But it wasn't a 10 year wasteland of starvation with no help.  Now the same people who fear they will lose everything have just voted in someone who will remove the safety nets many JUST used, so next time, there may indeed be a true wasteland. 

And I'm pretty sure you would be wrong in that assumption. The unemployment numbers are constantly on the rise since 2008. At least in Europe. People falling below the poverty line of having less than a few hundred Euros at their disposal per month are the largest growing demographic. In my country already pushing 10 percent of the overall population. In danger of falling into poverty even a larger number.

It may not seem to have had the same implications, but you always have to view things in their perspective. Before 1935 there wasn't any kind of social security net in the USA and little of that in Europe. What counts is that people are far worse off than ten years ago and have little hope for their future and the future of their kids. That's exactly the same sentiment as in the early 30ies. And that's what gives rise to the messiah figures.

That's terrible Abaris, I didn't know.

In America, our unemployment rates have dropped to around 5% from like 9% in 2008.  However, our underployment rates have been on a pretty continual rise since the 80's, with a few little upwards spikes, and concerning poverty, that is a far more significant figure.  I would guess most of Europe suffers from underemployment as well.

(November 10, 2016 at 2:35 pm)Aroura Wrote: In America, our unemployment rates have dropped to around 5% from like 9% in 2008.

I'm aware that Obama did a lot to reduce unemployment, but how does it look with the working poor? How many people can actually make a decent living from one full time job?

That's turning into a big problem in Europe also. Stagnant or even reduced wages vs ever increasing costs of living.

(November 10, 2016 at 2:41 pm)abaris Wrote:

(November 10, 2016 at 2:35 pm)Aroura Wrote: In America, our unemployment rates have dropped to around 5% from like 9% in 2008.

I'm aware that Obama did a lot to reduce unemployment, but how does it look with the working poor? How many people can actually make a decent living from one full time job?

That's turning into a big problem in Europe also. Stagnant or even reduced wages vs ever increasing costs of living.

See my comment on underemployment.

(November 10, 2016 at 2:59 pm)Aroura Wrote: See my comment on underemployment.

Sorry, saves me the question what the term actually means.

(November 10, 2016 at 3:02 pm)abaris Wrote:

(November 10, 2016 at 2:59 pm)Aroura Wrote: See my comment on underemployment.

Sorry, saves me the question what the term actually means.

Oh, sorry.  I'm not trying to be a dick.

Underemployment are jobs that do not provide a living wage, or enough hours.  So people working at a walmart with no insurance, 30 hours a week tops, at $7.50 a week are technically employed, but since they still require gov't assistance to have necessities like healthcare, basic housing and even food, they are underemployed.

We have a HUGE underemployment problem.

(November 10, 2016 at 2:41 pm)abaris Wrote:

(November 10, 2016 at 2:35 pm)Aroura Wrote: In America, our unemployment rates have dropped to around 5% from like 9% in 2008.

I'm aware that Obama did a lot to reduce unemployment, but how does it look with the working poor? How many people can actually make a decent living from one full time job?

That's turning into a big problem in Europe also. Stagnant or even reduced wages vs ever increasing costs of living.

Yes, that sounds like it is mirroring what we are seeing in America, too.  Even full time jobs are not paying enough for basic necessities.

So, the rich really are getting richer, while the numbers of the poor multiply and multiply.  I didn't know it was so bad in europe.  I figured it would be better.  Though hubby and I looked at Norway recently (part of a school project on Vikings, got off track looking at their economy), and noticed that wages are very low, even for skilled workers, and prices are frighteningly high for basic things like milk and eggs.  I wondered how they even live.

(November 10, 2016 at 1:33 pm)pocaracas Wrote: sorry for the spam...

http://24.sapo.pt/atualidade/artigos/cam...web-summit



(spot the error)

They spelt Limerick wrong. Ah well that's what we get for giving Portuguese millions to promote our fair city (which has walls, albeit ones you could knock down with a hot apple).

(November 10, 2016 at 1:40 pm)Aroura Wrote:

(November 10, 2016 at 1:21 pm)pocaracas Wrote: Aroura... I'm just gonna leave this here:
http://www.cometoportugal.com/

You are sweet Poca.  : But my whole family are unilingual.  Well, we are trying to learn German, but maybe I'm picking the wrong language there, from what people are saying about other parts of Europe.

I don't think we can get out of this.  Plus, the great NW is my home.  We are one of the most beautiful places on the planet, and I will not abandon it so easily.
I've been hearing Wexit jokes in my social groups.  I dunno. We have our own farmland here, fishing, water, lumber, energy, etc.  We don't need the center of the country.  I'm ready to become WashiCaligon.

Learn culchie instead, and come to Ireland. Ah, sure, begorra, you'll be doing ninety in no time a 'tall, a 'tall.

(November 10, 2016 at 6:24 pm)Tazzycorn Wrote:

(November 10, 2016 at 1:40 pm)Aroura Wrote: You are sweet Poca.  : But my whole family are unilingual.  Well, we are trying to learn German, but maybe I'm picking the wrong language there, from what people are saying about other parts of Europe.

I don't think we can get out of this.  Plus, the great NW is my home.  We are one of the most beautiful places on the planet, and I will not abandon it so easily.
I've been hearing Wexit jokes in my social groups.  I dunno. We have our own farmland here, fishing, water, lumber, energy, etc.  We don't need the center of the country.  I'm ready to become WashiCaligon.

Learn culchie instead, and come to Ireland. Ah, sure, begorra, you'll be doing ninety in no time a 'tall, a 'tall.

My husband is so Irish he almost bleeds green. I think his Grandparents came here, so he's only 3rd generation American.  He even has a "wee" accent.  
That being said, we've discussed it actually, and we'd not want to live there, but would love to visit sometime.  


Honestly, his family even has a touch of accent left over.