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RE: How Much Evidence Will It Take You To Believe In God???
November 13, 2016 at 3:28 pm
(November 13, 2016 at 3:10 pm)Alasdair Ham Wrote:
(November 13, 2016 at 2:53 pm)Stimbo Wrote: Proving that AF Staff are more powerful than any god.
Every thing is more powerful than any god
Even rocks. If gods were as demonstrable as a rock, or a grain of sand, there'd be no need for any of these silly gymnastics.
At the age of five, Skagra decided emphatically that God did not exist. This revelation tends to make most people in the universe who have it react in one of two ways - with relief or with despair. Only Skagra responded to it by thinking, 'Wait a second. That means there's a situation vacant.'
RE: How Much Evidence Will It Take You To Believe In God???
November 13, 2016 at 3:30 pm
(November 13, 2016 at 10:33 am)Aegon Wrote: The only "god" I could believe in is the pandeistic God (which created the universe by becoming it, ceasing its own existence as a conscious being). And that only works because of the lack of pre-Big Bang knowledge. Any other system of belief revolving around a personal diety cannot be proven logically. Sorry bud
Have you considered a panentheistic Infinite God that creates a finite space within itself, unfolding all latent qualities within that space as an ordered whole (a lawful universe), and remains outside finite that finite space as the original infinite union?
What do you think you know about the Big Bang?
"Leave it to me to find a way to be,
Consider me a satellite forever orbiting,
I knew the rules but the rules did not know me, guaranteed." - Eddie Vedder
RE: How Much Evidence Will It Take You To Believe In God???
November 13, 2016 at 3:30 pm
(November 13, 2016 at 3:19 pm)Minimalist Wrote:
(November 13, 2016 at 2:53 pm)Stimbo Wrote: Proving that AF Staff are more powerful than any god.
At least you exist..... if not, I've been talking to a mirage for, what is it? 8 years or so?
As a figment of your imagination, I'd like to ask if you could imagine me back in the old days, if you would. Cheers.
At the age of five, Skagra decided emphatically that God did not exist. This revelation tends to make most people in the universe who have it react in one of two ways - with relief or with despair. Only Skagra responded to it by thinking, 'Wait a second. That means there's a situation vacant.'
RE: How Much Evidence Will It Take You To Believe In God???
November 13, 2016 at 3:32 pm (This post was last modified: November 13, 2016 at 3:37 pm by Edward John.)
Then consider this. What evidence would it take for you to believe that I am God?
But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel contrary to the one we preached to you, let him be under a divine curse! Galatians 1:8
There is no God but the God of the Bible.
(November 13, 2016 at 2:55 pm)pocaracas Wrote: Excuse me... I'm going to quote you, but will remove all font formatting.
Edit: Damn... that's a big ass wall of text... hiding it all away!
(November 13, 2016 at 9:18 am)Edward John Wrote: Greetings! fellow Citizens of atheism and theism, discussions Atheist Forum.
The Question is, how much evidence will it take you to believe in Gods existence?
Evidence... any.
Philosophical arguments... none.
(November 13, 2016 at 9:18 am)Edward John Wrote: Will you be open to the evidence and do you want to find God?
If we are talking about evidence, it will talk for itself, no need to be open to it.
I want to find reality... if that encompasses a god, then so be it.
(November 13, 2016 at 9:18 am)Edward John Wrote: Are you interested?
Meh...
(November 13, 2016 at 9:18 am)Edward John Wrote: Are you absolutely sure there is no God?
Are you absolutely sure you exist?
(November 13, 2016 at 9:18 am)Edward John Wrote: If not, then is it not possible that there is a God?
Sure...
It's also possible that there is a Leprechaun, a Fairy, A Loch Ness Monster, a Chupacabra, a Bigfoot, a Thor, a Pegasus, a Cyclops, warp drive, the Force, Magic, A thinking planet as in Solaris, a portal to a hellish realm like in Doom, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc...
Where should we draw the line, when we want to be intellectually honest about reality?
(November 13, 2016 at 9:18 am)Edward John Wrote: And if it is possible that God exists, then can you think of any reason that would keep you from wanting to look at the evidence?
No.
But I think you're heading to present this the wrong way...
Usually, you'd go First, evidence, then conclusion.
But you're wanting to do, first conclusion, then evidence that ignorantly explains conclusion...
(November 13, 2016 at 9:18 am)Edward John Wrote: Or are you looking for excuses to avoid God, so that you can do whatever you want without having to worry about God judging you?
LOL!
Did you really go there?!
Do you think we're that shallow? (I'm not saying there may not be some people out there that would use that "reasoning", but not any honest atheist... unless we're just having some fun with the believers' incredible gulibility)
(November 13, 2016 at 9:18 am)Edward John Wrote: Ask yourself: Do I have wrong motives? Is there anything (or anyone) that I love more than God?
What?!
What motives?
Of course there's something I love more than god... god is, as far as I can tell, a figment of humanity's imagination.
Sure, some people to fall in love with fictional entities... all the time... Remember Seven of Nine, from Star Trek Voyager? How many geeks fell for her?
But no... it's not anything like the love you can have for a real person... a real soul mate.
That religion has convinced humanity that it can love a fictional entity as much, or even more, than any other fellow human, is a testament of how deluded the believers really are.
(November 13, 2016 at 9:18 am)Edward John Wrote: We can’t see God-Nope But you can’t see your brain. We can't see God but there are many things that we can't see but we believe in them because we can see their effects, for example we can’t oxygen or love, but we know it’s real.
You are being stupid on purpose, aren't you?
When one says "we can't see", you should interpret it to mean "see" in the broader sense... and in "can't sense". No sensory apparatus can be employed to sense any god.
All other examples can be sensed, even if one has to resort to artificial sensory extensions, such as X-Ray cameras.
(November 13, 2016 at 9:18 am)Edward John Wrote: For example, you have never seen your great great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great great, great, great, great, great great, great grandfather. You have never seen his house, clothes, grave or any of his belongings. So how can you be sure he ever existed?
Neat example...
For a living individual of any species to exist, it needs to have had ancestors... I didn't count how many you put there, but I guess around 20... 20 generations, at an average of 20 years per generation, gives us 400 years.... so in the 1600's, I'd have to have had such a grand^20-father. Humans didn't crop out of the mud back then...
(November 13, 2016 at 9:18 am)Edward John Wrote: You know he must have existed because you exist.
AH... you got it!
How did I miss it?
(November 13, 2016 at 9:18 am)Edward John Wrote: God is a spirit, which means He is invisible to us. He doesn't have a physical body like we do, which means He is not limited in the same ways we are. He doesn't get sick, grow old, or get injured like we do. He can be everywhere at once.
How do you know any of this?!
Where did this information come from?
How was it provided to you?
(November 13, 2016 at 9:18 am)Edward John Wrote: We can’t touch God directly-Nope But you can’t touch your brain. God is a spirit.
Sure I can touch my brain... I can't say I'd live for much longer after that... but I can.
Open brain surgery, with the patient awake, is commonly performed, you know?
(November 13, 2016 at 9:18 am)Edward John Wrote: We can’t Hear God-Not to everyone in the same way God speaks in different ways for example, Jesus Christ founded the Catholic Church to bring all men to eternal salvation. My sheep hear my voice, and I know them and they follow me. And I give them everlasting life; and they shall never perish, neither shall anyone snatch them out of my hand. (John 10:27-28)
Words are wind. (Game of Thrones)
Just because someone uttered some words, 2000 years ago, it doesn't mean that that person was hearing any god.
Hearing hallucinations are perhaps more common than visual hallucinations...
(November 13, 2016 at 9:18 am)Edward John Wrote: Do you know where you are going when you die? You turn to dust, are you 100% sure that is all? What if there is a Heaven, Purgatory, Hell.
I hope to get cremated, after having whatever organs that still work properly donated to people who need them.... if there is still such a need, by then...
(November 13, 2016 at 9:18 am)Edward John Wrote: Where are you going to place your bet?
If you place it with God, you lose nothing, even if it turns out that God does not exist. But if you place it against God, and you are wrong and God does exist, you lose everything: God, eternity, heaven, infinite gain. "Let us assess the two cases: if you win, you win everything, if you lose, you lose nothing."
Are you seriously wanting to employ Pascal's Wager? Dude, grow up.
My bet is on what I perceive to be reality.
If god is just, then he will understand... I lose nothing.
If god is unfair, then it is not your god, and not worth any praise... you'd also lose in this case... so, in comparison, I lose nothing. And I keep my intellectual honesty!
(November 13, 2016 at 9:18 am)Edward John Wrote: · God is the best explanation of the beginning of the universe.
No, he's not.
Big Bang, the singularity is the explanation.
(November 13, 2016 at 9:18 am)Edward John Wrote: · God is the best explanation of the fine-tuning of the universe for intelligent life.
No, he's not.
First, what some people have claimed to be such a fine tuning, has turned out not to be quite so...
Second, if we were not in a position to be alive, we wouldn't even exist, so que question of god wouldn't even be placed. Any Universe which can bring about conscious entities will bring about that question of tuning... Talk about a puddle finding it's perfectly fitted to the hole in the ground.
(November 13, 2016 at 9:18 am)Edward John Wrote: · God is the best explanation of objective moral values and duties in the world.
No, he's not.
Evolution of social species is. Clearly visible in many other animal social species.
(November 13, 2016 at 9:18 am)Edward John Wrote: · God is the best explanation of the historical facts concerning Jesus of Nazareth and God can be personally known and experienced.
Wow... a 2 in 1!
Which historical facts concerning Jesus of Nazareth? Care to share?
How can that god be personally known and experienced? Care to share?
(November 13, 2016 at 9:18 am)Edward John Wrote: · Something can't from Nothing. How did the planets form when the Big Bang explosion all of a sudden happen? After all, you don’t see round objects form when something blows up.
When you know the sequence of events from Big bang to solar system, we can talk... I'm not going to educate you on that...
(November 13, 2016 at 9:18 am)Edward John Wrote: · Eternal Universe? That doesn’t work because the second law of thermodynamics states that the universe is running out of usable energy and if you doubt this, look in the mirror (you’re aging and running down just like everything else).
The Universe, and the second law of thermodynamics, came about at the singularity called "big bang".
What was before, if anything, if "before" makes sense, we know not. Whatever it was, it probably breaks the known laws of thermodynamics.
(November 13, 2016 at 9:18 am)Edward John Wrote: · Life can't from Non-Life. There is no evidence whatsoever.
Caveat: Life, as we know it...
But we don't know what life was like when it debuted on this planet.
(November 13, 2016 at 9:18 am)Edward John Wrote: · Order can't come from chaos. Something exploded and we’ll all here.
What exploded?
Oh yeah... you hadn't read the article on the Big Bang.... go read that... Hint, the Big Bang is NOT an explosion.
(November 13, 2016 at 9:18 am)Edward John Wrote: · Immaterial(thoughts) can't come from physical matter.
Any AI scientist begs to differ.
(November 13, 2016 at 9:18 am)Edward John Wrote: · Would you also agree that just because we cannot see God with our eyes does not necessarily mean He doesn’t exist?
Would you also agree that just because we cannot see The Force with our eyes does not necessarily mean it doesn't exist?
Would you also agree that just because we cannot see Magic with our eyes does not necessarily mean it doesn't exist?
Would you also agree that just because we cannot see a Cyclops with our eyes does not necessarily mean it doesn't exist?
etc.etc.etc.etc.etc.etc.etc...
Flawed argument is flawed!
(November 13, 2016 at 9:18 am)Edward John Wrote: · If God exists in our mind only and is the greatest possible being and object which no greater being and object can be thought of then God by definition is greater than our minds, Therefore God must exist. The ontological argument shows that if God even possibly exists then God actually exists. Which means God is existence itself.
huh?!
Are you daft?!
Are you wanting to tell me that if I can conceive of a super-being, then that being just exists?!
Can you not discern what's in your mind from what is outside your mind?
(November 13, 2016 at 9:18 am)Edward John Wrote: I know you've seen all this a number of times now, but are you interested today?
I feel like I've wasted my time...
(November 13, 2016 at 9:18 am)Edward John Wrote: Do you agree that an open-minded person should be willing to look at all the evidence?
Still wainting for that "evidence" you speak of...
(November 13, 2016 at 9:18 am)Edward John Wrote: If so, then are you willing to look at the evidence for God’s existence?
Willing, of course... always have, always will.
Haven't seen any yet, though.
(November 13, 2016 at 9:18 am)Edward John Wrote: “And without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who comes to Him must believe that He exists and that He rewards those who earnestly seek Him” (Hebrews 11:6). But why does God wants us to have faith? I can testify and God is my witness, if you do not have faith, rock solid faith, you are not likely to spiritually survive the coming demonic onslaught to planet earth in these end times.
What?! survive what? I've been surviving very well for over 30 years and no faith to be mentioned... And I'm aware of many other people in a similar situation.... many have lived long and fulfilling lives... and no need to survive any "demonic onslaught"
You know what faith does to your brain?
You know how psychologically vulnerble you are to self-delusion?
No, of course you don't.... you live in fairy-tale land...
When you wake up from that fairy-tale, you'll see it for what it is.. if you ever wake up... I sense you are way too far into it.
(November 13, 2016 at 9:18 am)Edward John Wrote: Lets say God appeared to you in his glory, It's still down to your faith because, you have the option to believe that it was God or was just a hallucination. If it was a miracle, you have the free will to believe it was by chance or was of God or fakedetc. Here is the key that somany miss today. In order to obey God's commands you must believe what God is telling you. Doubt in God's word is always the devils target therefore his target when he attacks you is your faith.
You think you're the first idiot to think of this?
What if this god appeared in all its glory to all of mankind at the same time (with some shifts in time, so as to not disturb the sleeping folk that live in different time-zones)? How would this be a hallucination, then?
But does this happen?
Ah... no... it seems that is beyond it's power or wish... Of course, the simplest reason is that such a being doesn't exist.
(November 13, 2016 at 9:18 am)Edward John Wrote: Nevertheless when the Son of man cometh, shall he find faith on the earth? Luke 18
“I'll obey you when it's convenient for me...”, kind of belief isn't going to save anyone's soul. Rather, its just the grease that slides millions of nominal 'Unbelievers' into hellfire.
God is looking for people who will trust him, obey him and most importantly
love him. Trust and faith are key components of love and he is looking for us to
demonstrate these traits to the Lord.
No...
The religious elite is looking for people who will trust it, obey it and most importantly love it.
Can you tell the difference from what you said?
Big bang didn't happen.
We didn't evolve.
Evolutions false there's no evidence, except some bones. Philosophical arguments proves God.
Re-thinking evolution....
If a fair maiden kisses a frog which instantly changes into a handsome prince we would call it a fairy tale. But if the frog takes 40 million years to turn into a prince we call it evolution.
RE: How Much Evidence Will It Take You To Believe In God???
November 13, 2016 at 3:35 pm
(November 13, 2016 at 9:26 am)Whateverist Wrote: All you got to do is produce one god - just one - and I personally will concede the matter to you.
On the other hand, it's kind of an improvement that he didn't even pretend that God would ever show up and unwittingly implied that it's the accumulation of "evidence" that leads most people to religion.
"Well, evolution is a theory. It is also a fact. And facts and theories are different things, not rungs in a hierarchy of increasing certainty. Facts are the world's data. Theories are structures of ideas that explain and interpret facts. Facts don't go away when scientists debate rival theories to explain them. Einstein's theory of gravitation replaced Newton's in this century, but apples didn't suspend themselves in midair, pending the outcome. And humans evolved from ape- like ancestors whether they did so by Darwin's proposed mechanism or by some other yet to be discovered."
RE: How Much Evidence Will It Take You To Believe In God???
November 13, 2016 at 3:36 pm (This post was last modified: November 13, 2016 at 3:37 pm by Aegon.)
(November 13, 2016 at 3:30 pm)Arkilogue Wrote:
(November 13, 2016 at 10:33 am)Aegon Wrote: The only "god" I could believe in is the pandeistic God (which created the universe by becoming it, ceasing its own existence as a conscious being). And that only works because of the lack of pre-Big Bang knowledge. Any other system of belief revolving around a personal diety cannot be proven logically. Sorry bud
Have you considered a panentheistic Infinite God that creates a finite space within itself, unfolding all latent qualities within that space as an ordered whole (a lawful universe), and remains outside finite that finite space as the original infinite union?
What do you think you know about the Big Bang?
No because I'm too dumb to comprehend what you just said.
I know that there is no sufficient evidence for the cause of the Big Bang. And that a God like being deciding to become the universe would fit with the laws of the conservation of energy.
RE: How Much Evidence Will It Take You To Believe In God???
November 13, 2016 at 3:40 pm
(November 13, 2016 at 3:32 pm)Edward John Wrote:
(November 13, 2016 at 2:55 pm)pocaracas Wrote: Excuse me... I'm going to quote you, but will remove all font formatting.
Edit: Damn... that's a big ass wall of text... hiding it all away!
Evidence... any.
Philosophical arguments... none.
If we are talking about evidence, it will talk for itself, no need to be open to it.
I want to find reality... if that encompasses a god, then so be it.
Meh...
Are you absolutely sure you exist?
Sure...
It's also possible that there is a Leprechaun, a Fairy, A Loch Ness Monster, a Chupacabra, a Bigfoot, a Thor, a Pegasus, a Cyclops, warp drive, the Force, Magic, A thinking planet as in Solaris, a portal to a hellish realm like in Doom, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc...
Where should we draw the line, when we want to be intellectually honest about reality?
No.
But I think you're heading to present this the wrong way...
Usually, you'd go First, evidence, then conclusion.
But you're wanting to do, first conclusion, then evidence that ignorantly explains conclusion...
LOL!
Did you really go there?!
Do you think we're that shallow? (I'm not saying there may not be some people out there that would use that "reasoning", but not any honest atheist... unless we're just having some fun with the believers' incredible gulibility)
What?!
What motives?
Of course there's something I love more than god... god is, as far as I can tell, a figment of humanity's imagination.
Sure, some people to fall in love with fictional entities... all the time... Remember Seven of Nine, from Star Trek Voyager? How many geeks fell for her?
But no... it's not anything like the love you can have for a real person... a real soul mate.
That religion has convinced humanity that it can love a fictional entity as much, or even more, than any other fellow human, is a testament of how deluded the believers really are.
You are being stupid on purpose, aren't you?
When one says "we can't see", you should interpret it to mean "see" in the broader sense... and in "can't sense". No sensory apparatus can be employed to sense any god.
All other examples can be sensed, even if one has to resort to artificial sensory extensions, such as X-Ray cameras.
Neat example...
For a living individual of any species to exist, it needs to have had ancestors... I didn't count how many you put there, but I guess around 20... 20 generations, at an average of 20 years per generation, gives us 400 years.... so in the 1600's, I'd have to have had such a grand^20-father. Humans didn't crop out of the mud back then...
AH... you got it!
How did I miss it?
How do you know any of this?!
Where did this information come from?
How was it provided to you?
Sure I can touch my brain... I can't say I'd live for much longer after that... but I can.
Open brain surgery, with the patient awake, is commonly performed, you know?
Words are wind. (Game of Thrones)
Just because someone uttered some words, 2000 years ago, it doesn't mean that that person was hearing any god.
Hearing hallucinations are perhaps more common than visual hallucinations...
I hope to get cremated, after having whatever organs that still work properly donated to people who need them.... if there is still such a need, by then...
Are you seriously wanting to employ Pascal's Wager? Dude, grow up.
My bet is on what I perceive to be reality.
If god is just, then he will understand... I lose nothing.
If god is unfair, then it is not your god, and not worth any praise... you'd also lose in this case... so, in comparison, I lose nothing. And I keep my intellectual honesty!
No, he's not.
Big Bang, the singularity is the explanation.
No, he's not.
First, what some people have claimed to be such a fine tuning, has turned out not to be quite so...
Second, if we were not in a position to be alive, we wouldn't even exist, so que question of god wouldn't even be placed. Any Universe which can bring about conscious entities will bring about that question of tuning... Talk about a puddle finding it's perfectly fitted to the hole in the ground.
No, he's not.
Evolution of social species is. Clearly visible in many other animal social species.
Wow... a 2 in 1!
Which historical facts concerning Jesus of Nazareth? Care to share?
How can that god be personally known and experienced? Care to share?
When you know the sequence of events from Big bang to solar system, we can talk... I'm not going to educate you on that...
The Universe, and the second law of thermodynamics, came about at the singularity called "big bang".
What was before, if anything, if "before" makes sense, we know not. Whatever it was, it probably breaks the known laws of thermodynamics.
Caveat: Life, as we know it...
But we don't know what life was like when it debuted on this planet.
What exploded?
Oh yeah... you hadn't read the article on the Big Bang.... go read that... Hint, the Big Bang is NOT an explosion.
Any AI scientist begs to differ.
Would you also agree that just because we cannot see The Force with our eyes does not necessarily mean it doesn't exist?
Would you also agree that just because we cannot see Magic with our eyes does not necessarily mean it doesn't exist?
Would you also agree that just because we cannot see a Cyclops with our eyes does not necessarily mean it doesn't exist?
etc.etc.etc.etc.etc.etc.etc...
Flawed argument is flawed!
huh?!
Are you daft?!
Are you wanting to tell me that if I can conceive of a super-being, then that being just exists?!
Can you not discern what's in your mind from what is outside your mind?
I feel like I've wasted my time...
Still wainting for that "evidence" you speak of...
Willing, of course... always have, always will.
Haven't seen any yet, though.
What?! survive what? I've been surviving very well for over 30 years and no faith to be mentioned... And I'm aware of many other people in a similar situation.... many have lived long and fulfilling lives... and no need to survive any "demonic onslaught"
You know what faith does to your brain?
You know how psychologically vulnerble you are to self-delusion?
No, of course you don't.... you live in fairy-tale land...
When you wake up from that fairy-tale, you'll see it for what it is.. if you ever wake up... I sense you are way too far into it.
You think you're the first idiot to think of this?
What if this god appeared in all its glory to all of mankind at the same time (with some shifts in time, so as to not disturb the sleeping folk that live in different time-zones)? How would this be a hallucination, then?
But does this happen?
Ah... no... it seems that is beyond it's power or wish... Of course, the simplest reason is that such a being doesn't exist.
No...
The religious elite is looking for people who will trust it, obey it and most importantly love it.
Can you tell the difference from what you said?
Big bang didn't happen.
We didn't evolve.
Evolutions false there's no evidence, except some bones. Philosophical arguments proves God.
Re-thinking evolution....
If a fair maiden kisses a frog which instantly changes into a handsome prince we would call it a fairy tale. But if the frog takes 40 million years to turn into a prince we call it evolution.
RE: How Much Evidence Will It Take You To Believe In God???
November 13, 2016 at 3:43 pm (This post was last modified: November 13, 2016 at 3:44 pm by Cyberman.)
Added proper quote attribution (and removed annoying font style):
(November 13, 2016 at 3:32 pm)Edward John Wrote:
(November 13, 2016 at 11:03 am)Stimbo Wrote: Then consider this. What evidence would it take for you to believe that I am God?
But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel contrary to the one we preached to you, let him be under a divine curse! Galatians 1:8
There is no God but the God of the Bible.
We're not discussing books. I am not preaching any gospel. We're talking about gods. Leave the herrings alone. You asked how much evidence it would take for us to believe in "God". I'm reversing the quesion. What evidence would it take for you to believe I am God?
At the age of five, Skagra decided emphatically that God did not exist. This revelation tends to make most people in the universe who have it react in one of two ways - with relief or with despair. Only Skagra responded to it by thinking, 'Wait a second. That means there's a situation vacant.'
RE: How Much Evidence Will It Take You To Believe In God???
November 13, 2016 at 3:44 pm (This post was last modified: November 13, 2016 at 3:45 pm by Edward John.)
(November 13, 2016 at 3:40 pm)pocaracas Wrote:
(November 13, 2016 at 3:32 pm)Edward John Wrote: Big bang didn't happen.
We didn't evolve.
Evolutions false there's no evidence, except some bones. Philosophical arguments proves God.
Re-thinking evolution....
If a fair maiden kisses a frog which instantly changes into a handsome prince we would call it a fairy tale. But if the frog takes 40 million years to turn into a prince we call it evolution.
Time is the evolutionist's magic wand.
Fairy tales come in many forms!
Well then...
Have fun with that tantrum, kid.
Did you know that science clearly evidences that the earth is thousands and not millions of years old?
(November 13, 2016 at 3:43 pm)Stimbo Wrote: Added proper quote attribution (and removed annoying font style):
(November 13, 2016 at 3:32 pm)Edward John Wrote: But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel contrary to the one we preached to you, let him be under a divine curse! Galatians 1:8
There is no God but the God of the Bible.
We're not discussing books. I am not preaching any gospel. We're talking about gods. Leave the herrings alone. You asked how much evidence it would take for us to believe in "God". I'm reversing the quesion. What evidence would it take for you to believe I am God?
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